Russia invades Ukraine

[ResAlien]

I miss when Occam’s razor was applied more commonly than the idea of “4D chess” or whatever.

[burn_this_city]

Torture chamber found in Izyum with a box of gold fillings. Who are the Nazis in this conflict?

https://twitter.com/user/status/1577409345037692928

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I don't buy the money argument either.

IF this was something conducted within the alliance, and I say that with a big capital IF because I am not jumping to that conclusion, I would think it was more of an intervention to reduce Russian influence over Germany.

Germany is like a heroin junky and Russia is the drug dealer. The pipeline is like a big long syringe ready to inject that heroin once the cold, dark winter arrives. Germany already circumvented sanctions once for the sake of Nord Stream (with Canada's assistance mind you). Their future reliability may have very well been in question and I wouldn't be shocked if other NATO countries wanted to head that off before they could be tested. It's not like it would be an attack on Germany. It would be an attack on infrastructure that is a majority owned by Russia and served Russian interests more than NATOs in the long run.

I get it though. Russia does stupid crazy stuff all the time. There is always a really good chance they are guilty just based on how they tend to do things, their affinity for using scorched earth, and for using false flags. The argument for Putin doing it to take it away as a tool for a successor to use in peace negotiations, and therefore making one less reason to depose him, is also a pretty compelling argument.

I just think there are many different scenarios that make logical sense.

I agree. The primary interest would be bringing Germany back under American influence through changing where it's dependencies lie, which is largely economic in nature.

Between the dollar and NATO, the US pretty much has Europe by the balls right now, so I don't think they would be immediately worried about nations getting upset and wanting to shift alliances as a result of this kind of action. Taking out Nord Stream would just serve to tighten their grip.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

You... don't actually believe that... do you?

You honestly think that NATO not going into Ukraine had more to do with precedence and international "order" (do you mean law?) than with nukes being a threat?

Yikes.

Why would NATO go into Ukraine? Ukraine is not a NATO ally and is doing just fine on their own with logistics/intelligence support. I don't think its accurate to say that 'because Russia has nukes therefore NATO refused to enter Ukraine'. It was never an obligation of NATO to enter, and risks spreading the conventional war to other NATO member states unnecessarily.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Firebot

Ironically, the same terrain that made the counter offensive so difficult for Ukraine to attack Kherson (flat fields in the open) is also making it impossible for Russians to get a defensive foothold now that their line has broken.

This is why it was so important for Ukraine to get heavy weapons and vehicles. Russia simply has no answer anymore.

This will turn out to be Kharkiv offensive x 10

Getting Russia out of Kherson is a massive win.

It halts Russia's objective of building a land bridge to Transnistria from Crimea (which would travel through Odessa).

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Sliver

The US isn't manipulating Ukraine right now. I think it works to the US's advantage to have a weakened Russia, but it sure as #### works to Ukraine's advantage to have American weapons and intel. It's mutually beneficial.

It would be a win for the US to have a prolonged war in Ukraine. Right now Russia is bleeding equipment and likely has no industrial capacity to replace it. This is equipment that would have been supplied to the USA's enemies across the world. If everywhere from North Korea to Iran to Venezuela all of a sudden just stops receiving military equipment, it makes it a lot easier for the USA to accomplish their objectives.

This is pure speculation on my part.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

https://twitter.com/user/status/1577396355563196448

Apparently this is the translation.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1577397033522311168

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Apparently this is the translation.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1577397033522311168

This is correct translation, although it missed out his final sentence. Which reads "ignore those that support you as if you are a Russian national soccer team" (likely meaning fairweather fans that turn on you every time you lose).

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

I agree. The primary interest would be bringing Germany back under American influence through changing where it's dependencies lie, which is largely economic in nature.

Between the dollar and NATO, the US pretty much has Europe by the balls right now, so I don't think they would be immediately worried about nations getting upset and wanting to shift alliances as a result of this kind of action. Taking out Nord Stream would just serve to tighten their grip.

They had Europe by the balls regardless if Nord Stream is there or not if Russia is going to be belligerent. Germany in particular which is like Canada in not being particularly concerned with their defense spending.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Azure

Exactly in line with my thoughts. I don't see why people see this as being such a crazy idea outside of not being willing to admit that the US is manipulating the hell out of Ukraine right now to further its own interests.

That's where you lose us. Yeah - the US benefits from having Ukraine fight with Russia for while and beat up their military. But Ukraine benefits by being able to push Russia back right now because they have a bunch of advanced weapons from the US and NATO/US training their troops.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

That's where you lose us. Yeah - the US benefits from having Ukraine fight with Russia for while and beat up their military. But Ukraine benefits by being able to push Russia back right now because they have a bunch of advanced weapons from the US and NATO/US training their troops.

I also think the US has a lot of reasons for wanting to end the conflict as quickly as possible. The biggest one being inflation, which is something above all else that truly decides elections.

[GGG]

It makes the most sense for Ukraine to have blown up the line. It stops the EU from bailing on the war. I thought day 1 Ukraine should have been threatening to cut off energy from the EU of they weret getting into line.

Of all the parties the Ukraine benefits the most from that line being destroyed.

Now I don’t think they have the resources at this point to spare but they do have the biggest incentive.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Pointman

This is correct translation, although it missed out his final sentence. Which reads "ignore those that support you as if you are a Russian national soccer team" (likely meaning fairweather fans that turn on you every time you lose).

Pointy, how are you doing? Haven't heard from you for a few days. Everything looking good in regards to your family meeting up with you and going to Israel? Hope you all are safe and doing well.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by GGG

It makes the most sense for Ukraine to have blown up the line. It stops the EU from bailing on the war. I thought day 1 Ukraine should have been threatening to cut off energy from the EU of they weret getting into line.

Of all the parties the Ukraine benefits the most from that line being destroyed.

Now I don’t think they have the resources at this point to spare but they do have the biggest incentive.

Ukraine and the hardliners and states that are most supportive of Ukraine. There is a reason why Ukraine and Poland protested against it, and why Biden threatened it prior to the invasion.

I don't think it is a coincidence that the invasion of Crimea occurred not too long after Nord Stream 1 opened and the invasion of eastern and southern Ukraine occurred right about when Nord Stream 2 was going to be complete. Ukraine and Poland were right that the existence of that pipeline threatened their security.

[Pointman]

Unfortunately, Putin seems to be under enourmous pressure to win the war, rather than to end it. While you may enjoy watching Russian propaganda going like "Oh no, we are losing, what should we do?", it's not that good. Their next move seems to be "We are losing the war we can't lose and we can't conscript more of you our dear viewers so it leaves us with the only option of nuking".

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Pointy, how are you doing? Haven't heard from you for a few days. Everything looking good in regards to your family meeting up with you and going to Israel? Hope you all are safe and doing well.

I'm currently staying in the east Kazakhstan town of Jarkent. My wife is collecting all the required documents and generally prepares for immigration. She will fly to Turkey with our kids on Oct 24th, I will join them there and we will fly to Israel together.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Unfortunately, Putin seems to be under enourmous pressure to win the war, rather than to end it. While you may enjoy watching Russian propaganda going like "Oh no, we are losing, what should we do?", it's not that good. Their next move seems to be "We are losing the war we can't lose and we can't conscript more of you our dear viewers so it leaves us with the only option of nuking".

I see this too, but what would Nuking anything do? Then even China would have to pick a side, no?

[Mr.Coffee]

Yeah, nuking will not go well for Russia.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Pointman

I'm currently staying in the east Kazakhstan town of Jarkent. My wife is collecting all the required documents and generally prepares for immigration. She will fly to Turkey with our kids on Oct 24th, I will join them there and we will fly to Israel together.

Wishing safe travels for your wife and kids. Hope you can all be safely together soon in a place you can feel settled.

[FlameOn]

Guess with all the fronts collapsing in Kherson, the farmers are going to have another plentiful tank harvest.

Wonder how many Ukrainian infantry units get to the tank brigade.