Russia invades Ukraine

[JohnnyB]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1577028613186412545

[nik-]

We should back down as a result of nuclear threats, that will certainly prevent them from continuing in the future.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Seriously, exactly.

There is flawed logic here.

We can’t put troops in Ukraine to help defend them because Russia might use nukes.

Russia has said Ukraine joining NATO is akin to an attack on Russia by NATO and might be met with nukes.

But Russia is lying about that.

But we still don’t want to send troops.

And I’m Chamberlain because I prioritize avoiding nuclear war and killing millions and millions over Ukraine’s self determination even though thousands may die there.

Got it, makes sense.

If you believe what all of you are saying then logically NATO troops should be in Ukraine helping them, since we can’t believe anything Russia says. This is not 1939, entirely different context. In fact, almost everything is entirely different really. So why are all of you applying 1939 war logic to this? Maybe Churchill would have taken a different road if Germany could wipe London off the map with the push of a button.

Not putting troops in Ukraine had more to do with precedence and international order than Putin and Nukes. If the US goes in Ukraine, China, etc would see that as breaking the law and international order would be strained

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

North Korea just fired missiles over Japan that triggered Japan to advise some of its population to shelter.

Yeah I was following along, NK has fired Ballistic Missiles over Japan before, Nobody has paying attention to NK for a while, its time to saber rattle.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

https://twitter.com/user/status/1577028613186412545

Probably Russian propaganda getting picked up by the Telegraph. Same thing happened yesterday. They aren't very careful about it.

At least I hope that is what happened.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Not putting troops in Ukraine had more to do with precedence and international order than Putin and Nukes. If the US goes in Ukraine, China, etc would see that as breaking the law and international order would be strained

Everyone in the world already knows the US doesn't consider themselves subject to international law. They are the Judge Dredd of nation states.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Everyone in the world already knows the US doesn't consider themselves subject to international law. They are the Judge Dredd of nation states.

The one with the biggest and pointiest stick usually gets to do whatever they want.

Russia thought they had a pointy stick, but they just have lots and lots of popsicle sticks.

Nuclear weapons fall outside of traditional analogies because once they are used, we all die. And so what’s the point.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by nik-

We should back down as a result of nuclear threats, that will certainly prevent them from continuing in the future.

Besides, we learned over half a century ago that all you have to do to survive a nuclear attack is hide under your desk with your ears covered.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Is that what is being proposed? They applied to NATO. Did they conditionally apply based on when this conflict is over? Is that clear? I haven’t seen it but I guess we can take your word for it.

My understanding is that NATO can’t accept a member that is already at war.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Probably Russian propaganda getting picked up by the Telegraph. Same thing happened yesterday. They aren't very careful about it.



At least I hope that is what happened.

There's pictures of the equipment

[activeStick]

The Japanese - so calm, so orderly.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1577073488208461824

[fulham]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

https://twitter.com/user/status/1577028613186412545

Where would he fire this "test missile"

NK fires theirs off the coast of Japan, and SK traditionally. They don't shoot over landmasses.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by fulham

Where would he fire this "test missile"

NK fires theirs off the coast of Japan, and SK traditionally. They don't shoot over landmasses.

If we're using their competency thus far as any indication, probably a Moscow suburb.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Yeah I was following along, NK has fired Ballistic Missiles over Japan before, Nobody has paying attention to NK for a while, its time to saber rattle.

It’s all fun and games until one of their missiles goes off course and actually hits something.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by nik-

We should back down as a result of nuclear threats, that will certainly prevent them from continuing in the future.

Maybe context is a thing that exists though and matters as well.

I dunno, but I'm actually A-OK with "backing down" (we're not, I'm talking about specifically not allowing Ukraine in NATO which is a unique situation, so that is a strawman which you are excellent at) if it means nuclear war is deterred.

Or we could escalate with a psychopath sabre rattling with his finger on the button, and doing the precise opposite of what he has said for decades not to do and to which the "west" has collectively and continually done for decades.

All options I suppose, good point. Again this is not 1939. If Putin started invading multiple countries, sure, I guess I see your point but he won't and they aren't and literally just about everything is different.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Not putting troops in Ukraine had more to do with precedence and international order than Putin and Nukes. If the US goes in Ukraine, China, etc would see that as breaking the law and international order would be strained

You... don't actually believe that... do you?

You honestly think that NATO not going into Ukraine had more to do with precedence and international "order" (do you mean law?) than with nukes being a threat?

Yikes.

[Sluggo]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

https://twitter.com/user/status/1577028613186412545

Just Russians trying to duct tape some nukes together because Putin is pissed that they told him he had 10X more tanks than he actually got for the Ukraine invasion. Pretty sure this is a intentional flex (via leak) by the Americans saying that they know exactly what is going on with Russia's nukes and they probably have a better idea on their capabilities than what Putin's stooges tell him.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Maybe context is a thing that exists though and matters as well.

I dunno, but I'm actually A-OK with "backing down" (we're not, I'm talking about specifically not allowing Ukraine in NATO which is a unique situation, so that is a strawman which you are excellent at) if it means nuclear war is deterred.

Or we could escalate with a psychopath sabre rattling with his finger on the button, and doing the precise opposite of what he has said for decades not to do and to which the "west" has collectively and continually done for decades.

All options I suppose, good point. Again this is not 1939. If Putin started invading multiple countries, sure, I guess I see your point but he won't and they aren't and literally just about everything is different.

You know Russia under Putin has already invaded multiple countries right?? and he/they explicitly say they want to exercise absolute control over many many more, that Putin's expressed aim is to rebuild the Soviet empire to its pre collapse extent

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

You know Russia under Putin has already invaded multiple countries right?? and he/they explicitly say they want to exercise absolute control over many many more, that Putin's expressed aim is to rebuild the Soviet empire to its pre collapse extent

Can you please show me when / where he said that? Most everything I have seen is that type of stuff is opinions, blogs and theorists and journalists, etc.

But have the Russians / Putin said the plan is to go rebuild the Soviet Union?

Not saying it hasn't happened or is untrue I'm legitimately curious.

[afc wimbledon]

From2005

“First and foremost it is worth acknowledging that the demise of the Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century,” Putin said. “As for the Russian people, it became a genuine tragedy. Tens of millions of our fellow citizens and countrymen found themselves beyond the fringes of Russian territory."

and again in 2013

“It was a tragedy for the vast majority of the country’s citizens, After all, what is the collapse of the USSR? It’s the collapse of historical Russia, called the Soviet Union.”

“We have turned into a different country completely. And what has been built up over a thousand years, to a large extent, has been lost,”
“Overnight, 25 million Russian people found themselves abroad, in the republics of the former USSR, which had gained independence, sovereignty.”

“It was impossible for them to go back, to be reunited with their relatives. There was no place to work, no place to live. This is a great humanitarian tragedy, no exaggeration,”



Now if he hadnt had his army repeatedly march into and recapture the countries Russia lost this might be seen as rueful reflection but these views coupled with a willingness to use force to rebuild the USSR means the Baltic states Poland Hungary and Romania are all part of his wish list