Social and political issues

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I don't regard the rights revolution of the 20th century as an identity politics movement. Traditional conservatism treated people differently based on their gender, race, and sexual orientation. The post-war liberal movement was a move towards regarding people people as individuals, and challenging the notion that citizens should be treated as members of groups. Gay marriage was the last barrier knocked down by liberalism, the last case of institutional treatment of individuals differently based on immutable group identity.

The identity politics of the left today is a fundamentally different and fundamentally illiberal movement. It rests of the credo that systemic inequality and oppression are so systemic and so intransigent that treating people as individuals is ineffective. That the Western Patriarchy has fostered such a powerful hierarchy that even without formal barriers its privileges are impossible to overcome. So it's hopeless to rely on liberalism.

The ideologues driving the bus of identarian leftist politics were never liberal to begin with. Much of the rest of the left, captured by tribalism or going along complacently out of vague feelings of guilt or compassion, have abandoned liberalism without even realizing it.

But it was the left that created identity politics? "Traditional conservatism treated people differently based on their gender, race, and sexual orientation" but it was the liberals who were/are the problem? Now the liberals have taken it too far? Not buying it. Not when conservatives continue to defend their white privilege by blaming minorities for ever ill the nation faces. That is just a different form of identity politics, but just as crass and obnoxious.

Every time I hear from an evangelical or see their ichthys proudly displayed it is clear indication that identity politics is alive and well on the conservative side of the aisle as well. So let's stop with this garbage about one side being invested and responsible for identity politics, as both sides use it. One side is overt about it and puts it out there in plain English for all to understand. The other side uses dog whistle language and iconography to make the identity appeals to their consumers. Both play in the same sandbox. One is just better at burying their turds.

[PepsiFree]

Further, identity politics wouldn’t really exist if it wasn’t iin response to something.

The argument can be made that it’s too ravenous a focus on too narrow of issues, I suppose, or maybe it’s the wrong response to present issues, but the fact remains that those issues exist and have been allowed to exist despite the apparent power of liberalism to moderate the world.

Conservatives don’t really care about leftist identity politics, but they don’t really care about liberalism either. They are quite content trading in what’s best for the individuals they value without regard to the individuals they don’t. And a lot of that has to do with money.

The greatest win conservatives have ever scored is convincing the public that social policies that do not directly benefit you are a detriment to you. Gay marriage for example, is an obvious example. Why do straight conservatives care if a gay person is allowed to marry? Because the higher ups have convinced them it’s important to them, and by standing beside traditional values of segregation and unequal rights (the idea that if someone other than you gets something, you get less, forcing gullible people to think equal rights is somehow a bad thing) they’ve been able to continually convince the poor and uneducated to vote against their own financial interests to stand by what they’ve been told are their social interests.

[CliffFletcher]

The latest Sam Harris podcast deals with globalization, and its role in the waves of populism roiling much of the developed world today. As Harris' guest Ian Bremmer points out, Trump is the symptom of a bigger problem that's afflicting countries all over the world. Those who favour and benefit from globalization have done a poor job selling it to those for whom the benefits aren't as obvious. The problem is, the losers can still vote, and are willing to overturn the whole applecart to express their unhappiness.

https://samharris.org/podcasts/133-globalism-brink/

It touches on a lot of the same issues as The Road to Somewhere: The Populist Revolt and the Future of Politics by David Goodhart.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...d-to-somewhere

This book is timely, partly persuasive, and politically incorrect. Goodhart identifies two basic groups in British society: “anywheres” and “somewheres.” The first group contains urban, mobile, relatively young, wealthy, and highly educated elites of various ethnicities. The second comprises older, more sedentary, poorer, and less educated provincials, almost all of whom are white. “Anywheres” dominate elite education, the financial services industry, major media outlets, and the government technocracy—all of which are clustered in and around London. “Somewheres,” by contrast, are spread throughout the rest of the United Kingdom, where they seek in vain to defend local traditions, national identity, and what they conceive of as decent lower- and middle-class family values. Goodhart’s political incorrectness lies in his sympathy with the latter group, against whom, he rightly argues, the cosmopolitan elite has stacked the educational, economic, and cultural deck.

- Foreign Affairs

This struggle between Somewheres and Anywheres is remaking traditional politics in many developed countries, splitting the constituents of long-standing parties in the process and opening the door to populists. The new politics don't fall neatly into left-right categories, as populism has made deep inroads into traditional left-wing support among the working class, while the centre-right has had to abandon its pro-internationalist approach to economic issues.

[troutman]

Open Letter to Arts Commons re: Jordan Peterson


https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1F...86356995554300

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by troutman

Open Letter to Arts Commons re: Jordan Peterson


https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1F...86356995554300

God.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by troutman

Open Letter to Arts Commons re: Jordan Peterson


https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1F...86356995554300

"The toxic, and often violent, rhetoric touted by Peterson—whose quasi-academic ideas are misogynistic, homophobic, transphobic, and racist—wholly undermines the important work that our communities have been doing, and continue to do, in the vein of striving to support equality and productive action against things such as misogyny, homophobia, transphobia, and racism. Members of our communities are actively attending, working and presenting in Arts Commons, which raises concerns of safety during Peterson’s event. "

[CliffFletcher]

Wow. I honestly wonder how these people manage to function in the world.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Wow. I honestly wonder how these people manage to function in the world.

That bothers me the least, actually. I could care less about how THEY manage. But could you imagine being and working around those people in a normal day-to-day office environment???

[gottabekd]

We are deeply disappointed that Arts Commons has made the unconscionable decision to support Petersons’ values by virtue of hosting this talk...As Arts Commons continually hosts a broad and diverse intersection of audiences and artists, we ask you to consider the impact of your decision to present this talk.

Holy ####ing disconnect.

Hosting Peterson’s talk, and by extension endorsing his ideas... In hosting Peterson for a talk, Arts Commons is wholly complicit in such transgressions...Giving space and credence to ideas such as those held by Peterson undermines so much of the work that we do daily to strive for equality and justice not only in our communities, but in Calgary, and in Canada, at large.

It's pretty shocking if the people signing this letter don't see how hypocritical it is.

"We support diversity and equality, as long as your views don't differ from ours."

[GirlySports]

don't forget the risk line.

We are writing this letter to urge you to cancel this event, or to work with the presenters to find an alternative venue that will not put the audiences and communities that frequent Arts Commons at risk.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by troutman

Open Letter to Arts Commons re: Jordan Peterson


https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1F...86356995554300

If they really cared more about their 'safety' than trying to censor Peterson they would have published this letter a long time ago, rather than waiting until the week of the event when the ability to get an alternative venue is next to zero.

Pure BS

[lambeburger]

https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...ordan-peterson

Arts Commons says it will not cancel the talk. A spokesperson said in an email to Postmedia that the event was not scheduled by the venue but by event management company Live Nation which regularly rents space from Arts Commons.

[PsYcNeT]

I'm not sure what kind of incident could occur when those in attendance are all asleep from boredom.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I'm not sure what kind of incident could occur when those in attendance are all asleep from boredom.

Gotta add an insult where you can I suppose.

[PsYcNeT]

Sorry for interrupting your circlejerk over people not wanting Peterson around to spread his bad opinions.

[Ashasx]

haha okay, that's not what is going on here.

You have every right to criticize Peterson, and there are valid reasons to do so. We are all human.

But that UAS request is full of absolute lies that add more conflict to this disconnect than anything. If they truly cared about equality and justice or even safety, they would let people speak.

Instead, they falsely label him as a racist, a misogynist, and a homophobe.

Yep, that's going to help their cause.

[dobbles]

While that letter is pretty dumb and serves as yet another example of the tiny minority giving all of the left a bad name, you guys do circle the wagon pretty well around Peterson. I feel like he is the yin to the american politics threads yang.

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

If they really cared more about their 'safety' than trying to censor Peterson they would have published this letter a long time ago, rather than waiting until the week of the event when the ability to get an alternative venue is next to zero.

Pure BS

The funny thing is, that if they hadn't decided to write that silly letter, the number of people who had know Peterson was speaking would probably be pretty low. Sending that letter is going to have the exact opposite effect that they wanted, now people know and will show up.

Unless their goal was to incite something that they can point to as "evidence" of the perceived wrongdoings, which isn't unlikely either.

[robbie111]

So is this what the left does when they can't win a debate. Absolutely ridiculous.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Sorry for interrupting your circlejerk over people not wanting Peterson around to spread his bad opinions.

Chalk that up to yet another example of 'Do as I say, not as I do'!