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View Poll Results: What role do humans play in contributing to climate change?
Humans are the primary contributor to climate change 392 62.92%
Humans contribute to climate change, but not the main cause 163 26.16%
Not sure 37 5.94%
Climate change is a hoax 31 4.98%
Voters: 623. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-15-2019, 10:11 PM   #1601
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The day the pleasure use automobile becomes banned, we’re all ####ed. It’ll happen I’m sure, because it’s an easy target. Everyone will keep on buying garbage they don’t need from halfway around the world, and eating miraculously constantly in-season produce, while the hobby auto enthusiast is vilified.
The bigger issue will just be the cost of gas. Eventually only available at the race track. By the time electric cars are a 100% replacement direct air carbon capture will be reasonably affordable. So the issue will be getting refined gasoline to run your antique. Demand will be low that any new gasoline vehicle will be custom and therefore not very commonly affordable.

Enthusiast electric vehicles will likely exist.
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Old 10-15-2019, 11:50 PM   #1602
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As an aside, how long until we see calls for the banning of "pleasure" vehicle models? In light of man made climate change, and an ever increasing public sentiment of "you dont need that/it feeds your narcissism/impotence ect" why dont we just ban for example all 2 door cars? Essentially banning sport cars. No one needs them.
This would be interesting to attempt. You are essentially telling anyone who lives by themselves or doesn't have a 3+ member family that they have to get a 'big' vehicle anyhow. Yet one would think that if one is single, or a 2 person family, that a smaller 2dr car would be better than, say...a minivan.
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Old 10-16-2019, 06:19 AM   #1603
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Guys, it's not something he actually wants. He's just trying to make a case for AR-15s.
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Old 10-16-2019, 07:31 AM   #1604
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This would be interesting to attempt. You are essentially telling anyone who lives by themselves or doesn't have a 3+ member family that they have to get a 'big' vehicle anyhow. Yet one would think that if one is single, or a 2 person family, that a smaller 2dr car would be better than, say...a minivan.
It probably will come down to a economy rating system based on consumption. So a 2 door smart car is good to go, naturally aspirated autos will be done I'm sure.

I dont own a AR or a sports car so not sure how that applies.
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Old 10-16-2019, 08:34 AM   #1605
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I have a plug in hybrid van as there isn't a full electric family Vehicle big enough for us. We're at 9000km and have spent about $200ish in gas and $180 in electricity.

I think all plug in hybrids regularly cycle the engine on to move fuel and gas around to avoid that issue. Depending on the model, oil changes are pretty rare. Our warranty says we have to do it at 16000km, when oil change indicator says (350 hours) or 1 year

A 500km range is not necessary for 95+% of owners. Most of the time you're charging at home and almost all newer EVs charge at 100 kW or more, meaning quick top ups. I feel like 350km would be the sweet spot for our family and we travel to Alberta regularly. The trouble for now is there's almost zero charging infrastructure in northern Alberta
The problem with 350km is that it is more like 200km in the winter, which makes it only suited for city driving in the cold. Fine if you have 2 vehicles, but people will almost always desire to own at least one vehicle that has no problem going 500km, which is why a PHEV makes sense if you own one vehicle, or a full electric and a gas/PHEV vehicle if you own 2.
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Old 10-16-2019, 08:49 AM   #1606
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Not traditionally a big fan of Braid but I really love this article.

https://calgaryherald.com/news/polit...ta-greet-greta
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Old 10-16-2019, 08:50 AM   #1607
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The problem with 350km is that it is more like 200km in the winter, which makes it only suited for city driving in the cold. Fine if you have 2 vehicles, but people will almost always desire to own at least one vehicle that has no problem going 500km, which is why a PHEV makes sense if you own one vehicle, or a full electric and a gas/PHEV vehicle if you own 2.
Only if you stop and start a lot. In which case it would make sense you’d plug in at some point. If you aren’t stopping, and you warm up the battery before you leave, the depletion of the battery in the cold (talking to local Tesla owners) is negligible.
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Old 10-16-2019, 09:07 AM   #1608
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https://twitter.com/user/status/1183527305122992128
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Old 10-16-2019, 09:12 AM   #1609
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^someone here mentioned they have a Tesla and it loses about 40% range in the cold(and I've read that elsewhere), so that's what I was going with. If you want to go skiing, you are obviously parking all day, and there are only so many chargers to use. 200km barely gets you one way to Lake Louise or Sunshine. It doesn't get you to Edmonton. Yes, you can stop, but my point was, people see stuff like that and go oh, I'm going to need more range than that, even if it is only a few times a year. PHEV can alleviate that, which leads to more sales and fewer emmisions, which I why I tihnk they are a good near term solution until battery tech improves and costs come down.
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Old 10-16-2019, 09:13 AM   #1610
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Yeah, it's not that cut and dry. We get 430kms in the summer, driving sanely. If it's below -20, and we warm up the battery, we still lose about 20%, driving on the hwy to got to Banff. If we don't warm up, we lose closer to 35-40%. That's below -20. If it's -10 and warmer, no problem. The difference is negligible. Now for my wife, we have a heated garage, and her car is plugged in. If she warms up, and goes to work, where she has heated underground parking, she notices a small drop when it's really cold. The distance is only 20kms, so no big deal. You do need to be more aware. Go to chinook mall, you go underground and use the ev parking spots. Most hotels have ev parking as well. Hell the Banff springs has free valet parking for ev's, and they plug it in for you. I know one family without a gas car. They have a model x, a model 3 (long range battery) and a roadster. They also have property in Nanaimo, and Canmore, and Calgary. They have chargers at all of their homes. They have never had an issue. Of course, they are loaded, so they can do that. It wouldn't be as easy for someone who has a shorter range model 3.

I do have some friends who are looking at a model 3, who would rent a car for long road trips. They do this now. They have an older small car, and when they go away, they just rent a car. They live in the core, and have no need for two vehicles.
I can't see EV's everywhere for quite a while. The rural hockey mom needs to get her kid to another rural town in the middle of winter. An EV wouldn't cut it. When I was a kid, we would drive 1 hour to an hour and half in -25. Play the game, and the car is sitting in the cold for 2 and half hours, and then you need to drive it home. Warming up a frozen battery takes a lot of energy, and then keeping the kids warm in the back for the trek home also takes a lot of energy.

It's easy for Calgarians to own an EV now. But for rural people, it will be a while before it makes sense I think. I could see farming equipment going EV before the family suburban.
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Old 10-16-2019, 09:16 AM   #1611
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Thanks Bossy, appreciate the input.
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Old 10-16-2019, 09:25 AM   #1612
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I feel like that the UCP not wanting to meet with Thunberg is a missed opportunity to show the oil and gas business in Alberta is a more positive light, than if she ends up with some other tour guides. I guess it depends what her intentions are, really. If she is completely against all use of fossil fuels for anything then it might be a lost cause, but since she is the current figure head of the climate change movement, leaving her with a good impression of what is being done here it would perhaps rub off on others and perhaps curtail some of the criticisms we get.
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Old 10-16-2019, 09:31 AM   #1613
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I feel like that the UCP not wanting to meet with Thunberg is a missed opportunity to show the oil and gas business in Alberta is a more positive light, than if she ends up with some other tour guides. I guess it depends what her intentions are, really. If she is completely against all use of fossil fuels for anything then it might be a lost cause, but since she is the current figure head of the climate change movement, leaving her with a good impression of what is being done here it would perhaps rub off on others and perhaps curtail some of the criticisms we get.
Its been tried over the years. Never works.
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Old 10-16-2019, 09:32 AM   #1614
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^someone here mentioned they have a Tesla and it loses about 40% range in the cold(and I've read that elsewhere), so that's what I was going with. If you want to go skiing, you are obviously parking all day, and there are only so many chargers to use. 200km barely gets you one way to Lake Louise or Sunshine. It doesn't get you to Edmonton. Yes, you can stop, but my point was, people see stuff like that and go oh, I'm going to need more range than that, even if it is only a few times a year. PHEV can alleviate that, which leads to more sales and fewer emmisions, which I why I tihnk they are a good near term solution until battery tech improves and costs come down.

That's where something like car sharing instead of ownership might be better. You want to drive from Calgary to Vancouver, you swap your EV halfway there with another so you don't have to wait. Or, you end up with some of those rest stops like they have all over Ontario, where you can drop off your car, have lunch, and then get going again. I just haven't seen many plans yet for how the charging infrastructure is going to scale up when EVs become more prolific on the road. Right now it would be suffereable, but I don't know if you're 3rd in line to charge your car, how that's going to look.
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Old 10-16-2019, 09:36 AM   #1615
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Not traditionally a big fan of Braid but I really love this article.

https://calgaryherald.com/news/polit...ta-greet-greta

The best thing to do is respect her, listen to her, and not give her base a reason to think we're disrespecting or attacking her.


Let her come in, do her thing, lecture if she wants, rail if she wants, and thank her and wish her well on her trip home and be done with it.
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Old 10-16-2019, 09:39 AM   #1616
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I feel like that the UCP not wanting to meet with Thunberg is a missed opportunity to show the oil and gas business in Alberta is a more positive light, than if she ends up with some other tour guides. I guess it depends what her intentions are, really. If she is completely against all use of fossil fuels for anything then it might be a lost cause, but since she is the current figure head of the climate change movement, leaving her with a good impression of what is being done here it would perhaps rub off on others and perhaps curtail some of the criticisms we get.

We're not going to change her mind. She's got a set agenda, its not going to be anything but her lecturing and making angry faces.



Its a pointless waste of time, and giving her propaganda points.



She's completely against O+G, she's going to come in with a strong anti Oil-Sands message and she wants to fire up her base of people that want a enviro-dictitorial government.


Engaging her, or having her lecturing Kenney is going to not have any benefits for our province.



Let her come in, do her thing, talk angrily and leave, and respect her right to do all those things.
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Old 10-16-2019, 09:40 AM   #1617
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i will be interested when they start charging drives a fee when they use a charging station, because the charge is really a stop at the gas station.

eventually the price of electricity will need to rise to accommodate the required level of taxation

as for greta, i find the timing of her visit interesting. but yeah, i expect her to arrive, be angry, have a preser, be angry, maybe vis the tar sands and be even more angry and then tweet out some mis-inforation and get her followers evn more angry
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Old 10-16-2019, 09:40 AM   #1618
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Its been tried over the years. Never works.
isn't this exactly what the war room was slated to try to help?
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Old 10-16-2019, 09:42 AM   #1619
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That's where something like car sharing instead of ownership might be better. You want to drive from Calgary to Vancouver, you swap your EV halfway there with another so you don't have to wait. Or, you end up with some of those rest stops like they have all over Ontario, where you can drop off your car, have lunch, and then get going again. I just haven't seen many plans yet for how the charging infrastructure is going to scale up when EVs become more prolific on the road. Right now it would be suffereable, but I don't know if you're 3rd in line to charge your car, how that's going to look.
Ya, a 20 minute stop to charge every 500km isn't that big a deal, it will just be interesting to see how it is managed in the future when everyone needs to do it. You picture a long weekend at gas stations with the number of vehicles in and out in 5 minutes, and try to imagine how that works with everyone in EV's, and I can imagine a lot of frustration. But maybe charging speeds and battery capacity will improve at a rate that matches adoption, and it won't be a big deal.
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Old 10-16-2019, 09:48 AM   #1620
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i will be interested when they start charging drives a fee when they use a charging station, because the charge is really a stop at the gas station.

eventually the price of electricity will need to rise to accommodate the required level of taxation

as for greta, i find the timing of her visit interesting. but yeah, i expect her to arrive, be angry, have a preser, be angry, maybe vis the tar sands and be even more angry and then tweet out some mis-inforation and get her followers evn more angry
The other issues governments are going to have to grapple with is the tax loss from petroleum usage declining. It will be a creeping problem initially, and then they will realize they've suddenly lost loads of revenue and need an "EV" tax to cover it. I don't know if it makes sense to tax the electricity, or setup a whole new system of monitoring km/driven and you pay per km used. As it is, we pay per use(though gas taxes end up in general revenue), so a flat fee per vehicle doesn't make sense.
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