[News] 5 Flames file for arbitration (Lindholm, Jankowski, Hathaway, Kulak, Rittich)

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

Has to be Hanifin, doesn't it?

No I don't think so. What he is saying has zero to do with the new players. It has to do with the people who were here last year.

[868904]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Wonder who was asking to triple their salary. I'm guessing they won't be around long.

Wasn't it reported Kulak was seeking $1.5 million and his last contract was $600,000. That's pretty much 3 times.

Edit: nevermind, he was asking $1.15 million.

Maybe Hathaway is looking for a big raise?

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by 868904

Wasn't it reported Kulak was seeking $1.5 million and his last contract was $600,000. That's pretty much 3 times.

I suppose so. He isn't worth even a meager 1.5m per year in my estimation.
I was thinking rittich. Most pro seasons. Probably asking for more based on potential than actual results.

[dammage79]

Come to think of it, perhaps it was Ferland and that's why he is not on the team. Early feeler for a negotion on an extension ended quickly and boom trade was consumated.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

I doubt it was about anyone specific. General statement about these negotiations with some of the RFAs that were here last year. Basically saying they weren’t close to good enough last year, people got fired and traded and some of the request are for close to 3x raises.

Not saying he’s right or wrong, but this is nothing more than a negotiating tactic and PR move for the fans should we end up in arbitration a few more times than usual this year.

[GranteedEV]

Czarnik will be making ~5-6 times as much as he did last year.
Lindholm just got an 80% raise.
Ryan just got a 119% raise.


These players played a combined zero playoff games last year.


Tre is simply guilt-tripping last year's Flames into taking hometown discounts, for having to play with the likes of Lazar, Stone, Bartkowski, Glass, Hathaway, and Brouwer last year. He should look to pin his blame elsewhere.

[gamesaver]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Czarnik will be making ~5-6 times as much as he did last year.
Lindholm just got an 80% raise.
Ryan just got a 119% raise.


These players played a combined zero playoff games last year.


Tre is simply guilt-tripping last year's Flames into taking hometown discounts, for having to play with the likes of Lazar, Stone, Bartkowski, Glass, Hathaway, and Brouwer last year. He should look to pin his blame elsewhere.

Exactly what I was thinking. In what world is ok to ask for huge salary raise coming from terrible Canes team but not ok if you were on the underachieving Flames? Just because those players are partly accountable and responsible for last year failiure doesnt mean they deserve less money than newcomers from Raleigh. Really wierd from that perspective and I am afraid about what this may cause in the locker room IF the season wont be going well from the start.

[Fire]

Shocking, the regular Treliving haters are out raged.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by gamesaver

Exactly what I was thinking. In what world is ok to ask for huge salary raise coming from terrible Canes team but not ok if you were on the underachieving Flames? Just because those players are partly accountable and responsible for last year failiure doesnt mean they deserve less money than newcomers from Raleigh. Really wierd from that perspective and I am afraid about what this may cause in the locker room IF the season wont be going well from the start.

There won't be issues in the locker room, but at some point you have to value players for their actual contributions, not for their RFA vs UFA status or their teammates' shortcomings . Does anyone in their right mind think it makes any sense for Dalton Prout to be making as much money next year as Kulak? Both guys were Flames last year, except one played in the AHL. The outrage is that the one who played well in the NHL is making the same dollars as the AHLer because the team is unable to abuse their leverage, not because players are getting out-of-hand with salary demands.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

There won't be issues in the locker room, but at some point you have to value players for their actual contributions, not for their RFA vs UFA status or their teammates' shortcomings . Does anyone in their right mind think it makes any sense for Dalton Prout to be making as much money next year as Kulak? Both guys were Flames last year, except one played in the AHL. The outrage is that the one who played well in the NHL is making the same dollars as the AHLer because the team is unable to abuse their leverage, not because players are getting out-of-hand with salary demands.

Prout is making less than Kulak.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Czarnik will be making ~5-6 times as much as he did last year.
Lindholm just got an 80% raise.
Ryan just got a 119% raise.


These players played a combined zero playoff games last year.


Tre is simply guilt-tripping last year's Flames into taking hometown discounts, for having to play with the likes of Lazar, Stone, Bartkowski, Glass, Hathaway, and Brouwer last year. He should look to pin his blame elsewhere.

I don’t think he’s guilt tripping at all, and regardless of the quality of line mates, what’s wrong it’s his logic? These players were all bottom six players and rightfully so, on a team that was bottom half of the league. Point he’s likely making is that if you are a bottom six forward on a non playoff team, you are likely still a boarderline NHL player, not someone who needs a 3x raise. Logic holds for me.

[blender]

Clearly Treliving believes there was something wrong with the culture of the team last season and it wasn't just Hamilton. Rightly or wrongly he is sticking to his message and putting the onus on the players to perform.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

I don’t think he’s guilt tripping at all, and regardless of the quality of line mates, what’s wrong it’s his logic? These players were all bottom six players and rightfully so, on a team that was bottom half of the league. Point he’s likely making is that if you are a bottom six forward on a non playoff team, you are likely still a boarderline NHL player, not someone who needs a 3x raise. Logic holds for me.

There is a huge gap between individual contributions and team success though. Were/Are Alex Chiasson and Devante Smith-Pelly more valuable NHL forwards than Jankowski or Bennett last year?

Likewise, Quality of Linemates does matter. Garnet Hathaway had 2 goals last year. By most accounts he was an AHLer playing a top nine role. That affects a team's likelyhood of team success when individual players like this pull down the aggregate quality of a bottom six.

IF the player has individually performed at a level that indicates a rise in salary from 650k to 1.5-2.0M, why should team success have any bearing in that? Sure, counting stats can lie, but it's not like some of these players - Rittich, Jankowski, Kulak, Lindholm - are building their cases exvlusively around that. Players should ask for market value; not "Team-Success Adjusted Value" as Treliving seems to expect. I don't see Jankowski or Kulak asking for top six or top four dollars. I see one on essentially 9th-forward dollars and the other askin for bottom pairing dollars. Being angry you have to pay your 8th or 9th best forward that kind of money because of a lack of team success is a misdirection of energy.

[monkeyman]

So Hathaway and Rittich should say, well, the team under-performed last year so I'll play at a discounted rate? I'm sure the Flames would be willing to re-negotiate contracts if the team plays better next year?
If there's a disagreement about what a player deserves, there's a process and it's arbitration, there's no reason to go public with these kinds of remarks. They're not going to have any bearing on the arbitrators decision what so ever.

[Enoch Root]

Christ, some of you take comments literally. It was a general statement.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

There won't be issues in the locker room, but at some point you have to value players for their actual contributions, not for their RFA vs UFA status

If you try not to pay UFAs market value, they walk, and your team sucks. If you try to pay RFAs as much as the market value for equivalent UFAs, you go over the cap and have to trade players away, and your team sucks. And since you have to sign players before the season starts (often for several years in advance), you can only base their pay on their past contributions, so no player is ever being compensated based on what he is contributing in the current year.

If you expect pay to reflect performance with perfect justice, you are living in a fool's paradise.

Originally Posted by monkeyman

So Hathaway and Rittich should say, well, the team under-performed last year so I'll play at a discounted rate? I'm sure the Flames would be willing to re-negotiate contracts if the team plays better next year?

If they sign a one-year contract, then of course the team is going to renegotiate next year. If not, that's on them.

If I were Hathaway, I would be a lot more worried about staying in the NHL at all than trying to get a big raise. Rittich is not a whole lot better off. There is no ‘discounted rate’ from the league minimum salary, which is as much as a replacement-level player can reasonably count on making.

[Jiri Hrdina]

I like that Tre is a hard ass with contracts. Far better than the approach up north

[monkeyman]

I don't mind him holding a line, but there's no benefit in going public with his remarks, especially when there's a clear line of sight to a resolution(arbitration) with every one of the players that need to be signed.
If compensation were tied to team results, the entire organization should be taking home less money for the debacle that was the 2017-2018 season, including BT himself.

[gamesaver]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

I don't mind him holding a line, but there's no benefit in going public with his remarks, especially when there's a clear line of sight to a resolution(arbitration) with every one of the players that need to be signed.
If compensation were tied to team results, the entire organization should be taking home less money for the debacle that was the 2017-2018 season, including BT himself.

Exactly, whats wrong about it is making it public. This should have been dealt with behind closed doors. We do not need to know everything, for example it's aboslutely right to not give away details about what was wrong within the locker room last season. Now think about what will happen if we make the playoffs next year. Every RFA could be asking for significantly more money just because of a successfull year for the organisation. And do not think agents are not going to use this precedent. Tkachuk for example.

[Dajazz]

Regarding Tre's comments, the only ones that makes sense are Kulak, Hathaway and Rittich.

Jankowski is done, Hanifin wasn't on the roster so it's not them.

Or he's just sending a general message.