Ongoing US Mass Shooting Thread

[Snuffleupagus]

Like other mass shootings Vegas is now pretty much forgotten, American's still worship their guns but the odd political idiot pops up just to make sure the people aren't getting any stupid idea's like gun control.

This weeks idiot is State Sen. Michael Williams (R - of course!) who is holding a rapid-fire "Bump Stock" giveaway contest in celebration of the Second Amendment. He's also running for governor of Georgia

No folks, I'm not making this up

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/ele...ontest-n811451

[dirk diggler]

the gun worship down there is crazy. when we went to Montana, we were looking at a montana tourism book which had advertising in it. one of the advertisements was a female realtor standing by a chair with a rifle. not sure where that fits in with selling houses. thats a culture down there that has been ingrained forever.

[Phaneufenstein]

I was down in Texas couple of years ago and the locals I was with started talking about their guns. They had pictures of their weapons on their phones and showed them to each other in the same manner as you'd show people your kids' photos.

When I asked if everyone owns a gun here, they just all laughed and basically said, of course you dummy!

That was a real eye-opener for me of just how prevalent that culture is down there.

[OMG!WTF!]

You really want to know how nuts Americans are....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...=.041c4cdef431

Murder insurance! Woot.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Phaneufenstein

I was down in Texas couple of years ago and the locals I was with started talking about their guns. They had pictures of their weapons on their phones and showed them to each other in the same manner as you'd show people your kids' photos.

When I asked if everyone owns a gun here, they just all laughed and basically said, of course you dummy!

That was a real eye-opener for me of just how prevalent that culture is down there.

A couple of years ago the company I worked for brought in some guys from the Houston office for cross training. After talking a bit during some down time one guy asked me what kind of guns I owned, and when I explained that I don't own nor have ever owned a gun they both looked at me with absolute bewilderment. When the rest of the guys on the Calgary team also confirmed that none of them own any guns, they just shook their heads. It was a complete foreign concept to them for someone to not own a firearm

Sad end to the story is that one of those guys ended up committing suicide a few months later, with one of his guns of course

[KTrain]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

You really want to know how nuts Americans are....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...=.041c4cdef431

Murder insurance! Woot.

I was just coming here to post this. It seems insane that this even exists.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Phaneufenstein

I was down in Texas couple of years ago and the locals I was with started talking about their guns. They had pictures of their weapons on their phones and showed them to each other in the same manner as you'd show people your kids' photos.

When I asked if everyone owns a gun here, they just all laughed and basically said, of course you dummy!

That was a real eye-opener for me of just how prevalent that culture is down there.

Similar experience for me when I worked in Louisiana all of last year. All my coworkers would spend half their time talking about guns. I had a coworker in absolute shock and disbelief when I told him that most Canadians don't own guns and that hand guns/assault rifles are more or less illegal back home. His words were "I just can't understand how a society can function that doesn't allow its citizens to protect themselves. I have my hand gun just sitting in my truck right now and I always bring it with me. In case something crazy goes down in here, I can run out there, grab my gun and shoot the ####er that's trying to mess with me." I didn't bother to even begin arguing his point because that garbage is so ingrained in his culture.

It was one of the main reasons why I decided to move to a larger metro area here in the US where gun culture isn't as prevalent.

[Envitro]

Let's not confuse American and Canadian "gun cultures". The amount of training and scrutiny that Canadian gun owners have to go through is miles ahead of the U.S. I love our licensing system, notwithstanding that some changes are required to simplify it in some areas. Canadian gun owners get a daily background check, so that means that Canadian gun owners have to know the law extremely well, and can't commit any crime as their license and guns could be taken away. The argument that they're the most law-abiding citizens in the country often gets thrown around... Not sure that it's entirely incorrect.

On _Q_'s comment above, what I assume you're referring to as "assault rifles", whatever those actually are, are not "more or less illegall", nor are handguns. Just takes more training, scrutiny, and paperwork. The AR-15 semi-automatic falls into the "restricted" category (mainly because of it's reputation south of the border), as do all handguns with a barrel length over 4.133" (105mm).

Actual assault rifles, i.e. fully automatic AK-47's, Colt C7/C8 variants, and handguns less than 105mm barrel length are indeed prohibited and cannot be owned (semantics, but generally very true).

You can have as many non-restricted semi-automatic rifles in your possession as you'd like, and they may look like the AR-15 and you can take them to crown land to shoot, and can hunt with them, just not the AR-15....

Now, back to gun cultures. America has a giant gun culture problem.

I personally would never have to carry a handgun with me everywhere I go in case something goes down. That's what the cops are there for...
I've had this argument with my friends from the U.S., and they can't believe that I feel that way. They see it as a right to carry everywhere they go, I see it as a sign of a failed society.

I have guns, but I target shoot at my gun club, and I like to go out bird hunting... I don't talk guns with my friends, unless it's at the range and we're chatting about calibres, loads, or other gear. Just a different mind set I guess.

I feel like they're obsessed and guns are such a huge part of their identity, whereas here they're mostly seen as a tool (i.e. hunter or farmer out in the country) or as a fun hobby (i.e. sport or competitive shooter).

[_Q_]

I always assumed that there were so many restrictions on owning a hand gun in Canada that they were defacto illegal. I guess I learned something new today.

[Envitro]

No worries, glad to have been able to help.

Any other questions, feel free to ask!

[_Q_]

So looking at the RCMP website, it looks as though ownership of a hand gun requires a restricted license. In order to obtain a license, one must provide a reason for owning the weapon. Most common is target practice or for the weapon to be part of a collection. What's the process for proving a requirement? How likely are they to deny it? Do they somehow enforce that the weapon is used only for its intended purpose? Does a permit to transport allow you to transport anywhere you please or is that heavily restricted?

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Envitro

Let's not confuse American and Canadian "gun cultures". The amount of training and scrutiny that Canadian gun owners have to go through is miles ahead of the U.S. I love our licensing system, notwithstanding that some changes are required to simplify it in some areas. Canadian gun owners get a daily background check, so that means that Canadian gun owners have to know the law extremely well, and can't commit any crime as their license and guns could be taken away. The argument that they're the most law-abiding citizens in the country often gets thrown around... Not sure that it's entirely incorrect.

On _Q_'s comment above, what I assume you're referring to as "assault rifles", whatever those actually are, are not "more or less illegall", nor are handguns. Just takes more training, scrutiny, and paperwork. The AR-15 semi-automatic falls into the "restricted" category (mainly because of it's reputation south of the border), as do all handguns with a barrel length over 4.133" (105mm).

Actual assault rifles, i.e. fully automatic AK-47's, Colt C7/C8 variants, and handguns less than 105mm barrel length are indeed prohibited and cannot be owned (semantics, but generally very true).

You can have as many non-restricted semi-automatic rifles in your possession as you'd like, and they may look like the AR-15 and you can take them to crown land to shoot, and can hunt with them, just not the AR-15....

Now, back to gun cultures. America has a giant gun culture problem.

I personally would never have to carry a handgun with me everywhere I go in case something goes down. That's what the cops are there for...
I've had this argument with my friends from the U.S., and they can't believe that I feel that way. They see it as a right to carry everywhere they go, I see it as a sign of a failed society.

I have guns, but I target shoot at my gun club, and I like to go out bird hunting... I don't talk guns with my friends, unless it's at the range and we're chatting about calibres, loads, or other gear. Just a different mind set I guess.

I feel like they're obsessed and guns are such a huge part of their identity, whereas here they're mostly seen as a tool (i.e. hunter or farmer out in the country) or as a fun hobby (i.e. sport or competitive shooter).

I have a friend that owns an AR-15 but in Canada he can only use low capacity mags (10 rounds I think) in the states you can buy a 100 round mag in freakin Walmart

[Envitro]

Originally Posted by _Q_

So looking at the RCMP website, it looks as though ownership of a hand gun requires a restricted license. In order to obtain a license, one must provide a reason for owning the weapon. Most common is target practice or for the weapon to be part of a collection. What's the process for proving a requirement? How likely are they to deny it? Do they somehow enforce that the weapon is used only for its intended purpose? Does a permit to transport allow you to transport anywhere you please or is that heavily restricted?

Yes, you're correct. Ownership of a handgun requires that you state what you're going to be using it for. Most guys say for target shooting, which then requires that you prove membership to a gun club/range. Most ranges offer a full membership which can be expensive ($400-500/year) in town as they're indoor, or an associate membershp for <$100 so that you can prove membership, and then you must pay a discounted day fee for using the range itself. Same rule applies to restricted rifles. If you say that you're a collector, you can still buy/acquire the gun, but cannot take it outside the house or to a range ever.

They never really deny a restricted license unless your background check or references indicate that you should not own one, but that's more or less the same as the non-restricted license. There's more scrutiny with a restricted application, but if you're qualified for the non-restricted you generally qualify for the restricted too. I haven't heard of any case where a guy gets denied for a restricted if he already has a non-restricted license. You just need to prove range membership or say that you're a collector and it should be granted.

As for transportation permits, the ATT (authorization to transport) permit used to be issued every time you wanted to take it from your residence to the range or to a gunsmith/store, etc. You had to call the 1-800 number every time and wait for them to fax/email you the permit. It was a giant pain in the ass and has massive administrative overhead.

The Conservatives passed a law before leaving office that is a lot more common sense. With every restricted license now you get an automatic ATT condition with your license that says you can take it from your home to the range or gunsmith via the most direct route without having to call for an ATT. It's just attached to your license now. If you want to take it anywhere outside of those areas you must still call for an ATT.

[Envitro]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

I have a friend that owns an AR-15 but in Canada he can only use low capacity mags (10 rounds I think) in the states you can buy a 100 round mag in freakin Walmart

OK, so with magazine limits... (this is the biggest sore point with gun owners in Canada)...

For semi-automatic rifles, whether restricted or non-restricted classification, the magazine limit is 5 rounds. For handguns, the magazine limit is 10 rounds.

Now, some magazines that were intended for handguns also fit/work with semi-automatic rifles. For example, the LAR-10 pistol magazine fits 10 rounds and is compatible with the AR-15 platform. According to the law, you can legally use that LAR-10 magazine in your AR-15 since it was originally intended to be used in the pistol.

Correct about the USA, most states don't have any mag limits.

[2Stonedbirds]

To add to that, they MUST be labeled as a pistol mag. LAR mags, ect. And depending on what cartridge the mag is for, over ten is possible and legal. Example, .50 Beowulf LAR mags. Prepare to spend however. No mag limit on manual repeating firearms. UNLESS you are hunting.
The RCMP has a bulletin on this issue, if you have pistol mags and are using them in a rifle, I would recommend having it printed out and in your firearm case as not all officers are aware of this portion of the law.

Edit: some semi rifles are exempt, such as the garand.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

You really want to know how nuts Americans are....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...=.041c4cdef431

Murder insurance! Woot.

You know Americans are crazy when I thought this was an article about how Americans wanted to literally murder insurance.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Envitro

OK, so with magazine limits... (this is the biggest sore point with gun owners in Canada)...

Too bad, if you can't hit your intended target/prey in 5 shots you shouldn't be shooting a gun, if you feel the need to shoot 100 shots without reloading it means you're a crazy gun freak and you should apply for US citizenship

[Envitro]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Too bad, if you can't hit your intended target/prey in 5 shots you shouldn't be shooting a gun, if you feel the need to shoot 100 shots without reloading it means you're a crazy gun freak and you should apply for US citizenship

Hmmmmmm.... OK, that's quite the jump from 5 to 100

Let's break down your argument on the two main points and see if we can bridge the gap here.

To be clear, before I got into shooting of any kind I thought the exact same thing. It seemed like a common-sense thing to prevent mass shootings like in the U.S.. It feels like the right solution, but once we look at the facts and reality the argument falls apart.


Argument #1 - You're a bad shot and should feel shame

If you're a hunter, you're generally ethical, and would like to kill the animal in 1 shot, not 5. Most, if not all, hunting rifles are bolt-action, so there are inherently no magazine limitations according to firearms regulation. Hunting regs are different. I and everyone I know have passed up many shots that guarantee a clean kill with a single shot.

Shotguns, you can only hunt with 3 rounds max in the shotgun (2 in mag + 1 in chamber).

If you're a competitive shooter, it's a whole other ball of wax. You're not shooting at 1 target over and over. Check out this "3 Gun" Competition video and tell me 5 mag limits make sense

Just because people argue against magazine limitations of 5, doesn't mean that they are a "gun freak" and want a Tommy-gun style drum of 100+ rounds. Let's be real here. Also, ammo is expensive!

Argument #2 - It Prevents Mass Shootings

Statistically it does not. Research shows that the number of shots fired in a mass shooting is very low (< 8 something like that). I'll dig up a link and post it when I find it. Obviously LV probably blows that average out of the water.

However, if one has a criminal intent to use a firearm, and wishes to use a standard capacity magazine, one merely has to use a power drill to remove the rivet which pins it at the legal capacity. The rivet therefore only prevents lawful firearm users from using standard capacity magazines (which are typically 20 or 30), not criminals.

Secondly, a magazine change can be effected on the go in less than two seconds by someone who is skilled. The magazine capacity limits therefore do nothing to enhance public safety as the concept of a “pause” or opportunity to take down an active shooter during a reload. So again, the prohibition on standard capacity magazines has no effect on the criminal, only on the law-abiding firearm user.

These restrictions not only serve no public safety purpose, but they also pose a grave risk to law-abiding gun owners for the simple reason that the rivet fell out in their magazine (the offence carries a penalty of up to 5 years in prison, even if the owner does not realize the rivet fell out).

[CaptainCrunch]

Put a digital screen on every rifle and get Microsoft involved in writing a rifle OS

You pull the trigger

Are you really sure that you want to pull the trigger yes/no

Boop pushes Yes

Sorry, your rifle OS is out of date, it will take 10 minutes and a reboot of your rifle in order to be able to shoot.

[Muta]

No guns, no gun violence. Pretty simple equation. Too bad this concept is lost on some people.