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View Poll Results: Best prospect left from the following?
Agostino 9 3.46%
Billins 0 0%
Bruce 0 0%
Carroll 5 1.92%
Culkin 31 11.92%
Deblouw 0 0%
Elson 1 0.38%
Gilmour 0 0%
Grant 0 0%
Harrison 2 0.77%
Hathaway 2 0.77%
Kanzig 5 1.92%
Karnaukhov 0 0%
Kulak 4 1.54%
Mangiapane 7 2.69%
Morrison 145 55.77%
Ollas Mattson 3 1.15%
Rafikov 12 4.62%
Sieloff 5 1.92%
Smith 29 11.15%
Van Brabant 0 0%
Wolf 0 0%
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Old 07-19-2015, 05:56 PM   #21
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Hype?

It's round 15, mofo.
Hype is probably the wrong word. I don't think he's a top 20 prospect in the org. I guess is what I meant.
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Old 07-19-2015, 06:21 PM   #22
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Hype is probably the wrong word. I don't think he's a top 20 prospect in the org. I guess is what I meant.
Harsh.
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Old 07-19-2015, 06:24 PM   #23
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Last couple years doing these polls amazes me how deep the Flames prospect pool has gotten over the past 3-4 years
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Old 07-19-2015, 07:00 PM   #24
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I think I am going on a D-run now, hopefully at least one of these guys makes an impact at the NHL level:

Morrison, followed by Culkin, Rafikov, then Kulak
Agostino might find a way to make an appearance as well
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Old 07-19-2015, 07:11 PM   #25
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I don't understand why so many people are voting for Morrison ahead of Culkin and Kulak.


Physically, all three of them are essentially the same size (6'2", around 200 lbs). Morrison is almost two years older than the other two (personally, all things being equal, I rank the younger player(s) higher).

The only significant difference is that Morrison is a right-handed shot. A year ago, that was a much bigger need for the organization than it is now. The emergence of Engelland as a solid 3rd-pairing player, and the Hamilton acquisition have balanced out the L-R discrepancy in the Flames defensive pipeline. Wotherspoon is a left-shot and Nakladal is a right-shot, and they're both likely ahead of Culkin, Kulak, and Morrison for call-ups next season.


Culkin and Kulak have both completed a full season of pro hockey, and both had solid first years as 20 year-old defencemen. Morrison had 10 pro games, late in the season. If not for his injury, Culkin likely would have seen action in Calgary last season. Kulak spent half the season in Colorado, but he had a good attitude about it, and played well when he was brought back to the AHL.

Morrison put up 6 points in his 10 games, but half of that was 3 points in one game (a 7-3 win). There's a danger in overrating small sample sizes. Both Culkin and Kulak had similarly productive stretches last season in the AHL. Culkin had 8 points in his first 9 games in Adirondack. Kulak had 6 points in his final 6 games in Adirondack.


All three of them have 2 years remaining on their ELCs. Morrison is getting paid more, but that's more a product of being a College UFA who had multiple offers than it is any comment on his place in the team's hierarchy. Culkin and Kulak both stood out enough as 17 year-olds to get drafted. Unfortunately for them, that means they had no negotiating power when it came time to sign their contracts.



Now, I'm not saying anyone is wrong for voting for Morrison at this point. I'm just surprised the voting is so one-sided in Morrison's favour.
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Old 07-19-2015, 07:33 PM   #26
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Morrison looked better to me in the times I've watched him
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Old 07-19-2015, 08:56 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm View Post
Harsh.
How is it harsh? My ranking for the rest of the prospects is as follows

15. Agostino
16. Culkin
17. Morrison
18. Mangiapane
19. Kulak
20. Carroll
21. Smith

I have guys like Gilmour, Rafikov and Olas Mattson are nipping right behind Smith. I have Big Rig more with the bottom tier of prospects, with Van Brabant, Sieloff, Kanzig, Hathaway and Elson. It's not a condemnation, it's just my opinion. I just don't think Smith will ever play in our top 9 as a fixture.

Maybe he'll be an asset on the 4th line... a monster sized Brandon Prust if all goes well? What are we really looking at as far as potential goes with Smith? For a guy his size and age, and on a great team, I would've expected more gaudy point totals last season tbh. I know there's more to it than that, and I expect to get ripped apart, but I still felt underwhelmed by his season last year. Mangiapane looks to be a better prospect selected in the 6th round this year. Half a year younger and he tore up the same league compared to Hunter...but he's small and Hunter's big.

Obviously I'm open to being wrong. It would be crazy to have a 6'7" PF smashing in 20+ goals on the yearly.
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Old 07-19-2015, 09:34 PM   #28
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Been voting for Smith since 11, and will continue until hes off the board.
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Old 07-19-2015, 09:37 PM   #29
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Big Rig.
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Old 07-19-2015, 09:50 PM   #30
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smith for the third time.
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Old 07-19-2015, 10:34 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getbak View Post
I don't understand why so many people are voting for Morrison ahead of Culkin and Kulak.


Physically, all three of them are essentially the same size (6'2", around 200 lbs). Morrison is almost two years older than the other two (personally, all things being equal, I rank the younger player(s) higher).

The only significant difference is that Morrison is a right-handed shot. A year ago, that was a much bigger need for the organization than it is now. The emergence of Engelland as a solid 3rd-pairing player, and the Hamilton acquisition have balanced out the L-R discrepancy in the Flames defensive pipeline. Wotherspoon is a left-shot and Nakladal is a right-shot, and they're both likely ahead of Culkin, Kulak, and Morrison for call-ups next season.


Culkin and Kulak have both completed a full season of pro hockey, and both had solid first years as 20 year-old defencemen. Morrison had 10 pro games, late in the season. If not for his injury, Culkin likely would have seen action in Calgary last season. Kulak spent half the season in Colorado, but he had a good attitude about it, and played well when he was brought back to the AHL.

Morrison put up 6 points in his 10 games, but half of that was 3 points in one game (a 7-3 win). There's a danger in overrating small sample sizes. Both Culkin and Kulak had similarly productive stretches last season in the AHL. Culkin had 8 points in his first 9 games in Adirondack. Kulak had 6 points in his final 6 games in Adirondack.

All three of them have 2 years remaining on their ELCs. Morrison is getting paid more, but that's more a product of being a College UFA who had multiple offers than it is any comment on his place in the team's hierarchy. Culkin and Kulak both stood out enough as 17 year-olds to get drafted. Unfortunately for them, that means they had no negotiating power when it came time to sign their contracts.

Now, I'm not saying anyone is wrong for voting for Morrison at this point. I'm just surprised the voting is so one-sided in Morrison's favour.
I think the difference between Culkin, Kulak, and Morrison is really just splitting hairs. They're almost three of the same prospect, which is awesome because some teams would love to have even one of them. But between the three Morrison is the most polished and NHL ready, Kulak probably the least.So I think the voting is fair. This was how they ended up ranked for me:

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpos...0&postcount=21
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Old 07-19-2015, 11:45 PM   #32
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please justify these statements. looks like his ceiling would be a 2nd/3rd line powerforward to me. I don't see how his ceiling and floor could possibly be the same thing. His floor would be a non-NHLer unless you think he's a sure bet to make the league.
Sorry I think I missed this but answered it on another post sort of. In addition to my personal doubts of Smith's upside just think chasing the mystical unicorn (2nd Line PF) is great and all but it doesn't tend to yield results. Hunter Smith could turn out to be Jarome Iginla for all I know, I just think the comparative chances of that (2nd Line PF) happening versus what Agostino/Culak/Mangiapane may bring is not a gamble I would take.

History is not exactly littered with monstrous power forwards who didn't put up PPG in their draft+2 season in the OHL. He was benefitted by playing on a great team as well as being a physical beast and the results were... okay. He finished 70th overall in OHL scoring with 49 points in 57 games, with a great playoffs by all accounts, but still not overly productive.

Hunter would be compared to Lucic if he becomes 2nd Line, it would mean he was a 20+ goal 50+ point literal beast. Is this really his potential?

Sure, in the same sense people predicted Jarome Iginla would score 600 goals after being traded for Nieuwendyk, I suppose.

I'm talking 'what is the realistic expectation here' not 'what is the 1% chance of happening/best case scenario that leads the franchise to untold glory' scenario. Smith's realistic potential to me is '4th liner' but who knows, he could become more. That would be awesome. I'm just not getting my hopes up.

If he becomes Monster Prust, we should be beyond thrilled.
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Old 07-19-2015, 11:52 PM   #33
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Yeah, it’s pretty clearly Morrison.
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Old 07-19-2015, 11:58 PM   #34
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If he's as good as the last right handed and unheralded Morrison, we are laughing. From organizational weakness one year ago to what you see before you today. Truly remarkable.
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Old 07-20-2015, 12:01 AM   #35
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Morrison gets it
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Old 07-20-2015, 12:01 AM   #36
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I think you are focusing too much on numbers. let's use your best case scenario, Lucic. did you know that Lucic scored 19 points in 60 some games in his draft year. those aren't gaudy numbers. did you know that he wasn't point per game in junior the year after either? his top goal scoring year in junior was 30 but hey, he also scored 30 in the NHL.

One thing a lot of fans don't seem to notice is that bigger players often have both their games and their points translate more easily to the NHL. The small, massive point producing players in junior often can't translate their numbers. Guys like Gaudreau are the exception not the norm. But if you look at the stats closely of a lot of big guys who play a power game you'd be surprised that they weren't dominant point producers in junior but scores at a similar rate in junior and pro. Take Getzlaf for example, he didn't lead junior in scoring even though he had size, strength and skill. in fact he scored at the same rate or better in the NHL. Lucic is another example of this. if you or I look closely we could probably find others.

so to me Smith's numbers aren't concerning at all. powerforwards don't develop as quickly as smaller players and their games readily translate to the NHL because with a little more muscle they can out power most NHLers as easily as they did the kids in junior.

anyone else with me?

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Old 07-20-2015, 12:08 AM   #37
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Personally, I'm rooting for Smith to pan out in more than a plug/complimentary role if for no reason other than to extend the career of Ferland.
Vancouver series was amazing, no doubt, but if he's the lone gun out there doing that year after year, the chances of his career being cut short go way up (especially if we're a regular playoff team over the next few seasons - and most would agree we should be).

This also applies to Bennett.

Having McGrattan is awesome, but is he going to protect our top line center with 30 seconds left down a goal? (Edit to confirm I realize he's gone, just an example of that mould of player)
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Old 07-20-2015, 12:21 AM   #38
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I think you are focusing too much on numbers. let's use your best case scenario, Lucic. did you know that Lucic scored 19 points in 60 some games in his draft year. those aren't gaudy numbers. did you know that he wasn't point per game in junior the year after either? his top goal scoring year in junior was 30 but hey, he also scored 30 in the NHL.

One thing a lot of fans don't seem to notice is that bigger players often have both their games and their points translate more easily to the NHL. The small, massive point producing players in junior often can't translate their numbers. Guys like Gaudreau are the exception not the norm. But if you look at the stats closely of a lot of big guys who play a power game you'd be surprised that they weren't dominant point producers in junior but scores at a similar rate in junior and pro. Take Getzlaf for example, he didn't lead junior in scoring even though he had size, strength and skill. in fact he scored at the same rate or better in the NHL. Lucic is another example of this. if you or I look closely we could probably find others.

so to me Smith's numbers aren't concerning at all. powerforwards don't develop as quickly as smaller players and their games readily translate to the NHL because with a little more muscle they can out power most NHLers as easily as they did the kids in junior.

anyone else with me?
I sure hope you're right, because by the time Smith is done filling out, Lucic is going to look like a shrimp standing next to him.
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Old 07-20-2015, 12:24 AM   #39
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I think you are focusing too much on numbers. let's use your best case scenario, Lucic. did you know that Lucic scored 19 points in 60 some games in his draft year. those aren't gaudy numbers. did you know that he wasn't point per game in junior the year after either? his top goal scoring year in junior was 30 but hey, he also scored 30 in the NHL.

One thing a lot of fans don't seem to notice is that bigger players often have bith their games and their points translate more easily to the NHL. The small, massive point producing players in junior often can't translate their numbers. Guys like Gaudreau are the exception not the norm. But if you look at the stats closely of a lot of big guys who play a power game you'd be surprised that they weren't dominant point producers in junior but a ores at a similar rate in junior and pro. Take Getzlaf for example, he didn't lead junior in scoring even though he had size, strength and skill. in fact he scored at the same rate or better in the NHL. Lucic is another example of this. if you or I look closely we could probably find others.

so to me Smith's numbers aren't concerning at all. powerforwards don't develop as quickly as smaller players and their games readily translate to the NHL because with a little more muscle they can out power most NHLers as easily as they did the kids in junior.

anyone else with me?
I have to say I enjoy most of your posts but I just don't think you're really reading me here. I like Smith, I really do. I want him to succeed and dominate. It's just when I'm projecting young players, I'm trying to keep myself grounded and 2nd Line seems like a lot for Smith. I think he's going to play for us and a lot of other teams in a depth role, I just don't see him as more than a depth player.

In the above bolded you mentioned Lucic's draft year totals. I was talking about Smith's draft+2 totals as last year was his second post draft year after being passed over in 2013. Lucic didn't have draft+2 because he played on Boston one year after being drafted. The closest comparison is Lucic D+1 vs Smith D+2

Lucic draft+1 totals= 70-30-38-68

Smith draft+2 totals= 57-23-26-49

Sure Lucic only got 19 points in his draft year, but he got 27 in his draft+2 year, his rookie season with the Boston Bruins. Smith got 49 in 57 for the Oshawa Generals at the same juncture. It's just not comparable. Nieuwendyk is to Iginla as Lucic is to Smith (if he maxes out or gets a genie) in terms of holy #### that was unexpected!

For the record I love big, talented players, I'm not trying to sound anti-big. Ferland is one of my top 5 favorite players on team. I'm getting his jersey as soon as he gets a new ## or confirmed keeps 79 and wears in it the retros. I think the kid has Lucic-lite written all over him and I'm not backing off that. He's going to get 20+ goals a couple times at least AND smash McDavid to the point wear Edmonton city council tries to ban him from the city limits.
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Old 07-20-2015, 01:42 AM   #40
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Smith looks to me to be a Brian Boyle type player. Very useful, but I am not sure there is that higher end upside. We'll see.
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