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Old 09-15-2017, 10:24 AM   #2501
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We don't need Duchene.
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Old 09-15-2017, 11:07 AM   #2502
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Originally Posted by Erick Estrada View Post
Oh please! Lets not start painting guys like this as untouchable.
He brings a dimension to this team that isn't very easy to find and I just think that it'd be stupid to trade him before we know what we really have in him.

Last edited by Love; 09-15-2017 at 11:09 AM.
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Old 09-15-2017, 11:30 AM   #2503
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He brings a dimension to this team that isn't very easy to find and I just think that it'd be stupid to trade him before we know what we really have in him.
If he is the lone roster player moved in a Duchene deal do we really need to keep waiting? He is 25 years old and while I still think his career high numbers are ahead of him he is not going to become the level of player Duchene is.
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Old 09-15-2017, 11:58 AM   #2504
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If he is the lone roster player moved in a Duchene deal do we really need to keep waiting? He is 25 years old and while I still think his career high numbers are ahead of him he is not going to become the level of player Duchene is.
Was, no guarantees either way.
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Old 09-15-2017, 12:20 PM   #2505
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Was, no guarantees either way.
True but would you bet on a player that is 25 with a career high of 25pts or a 26 year old who has a career low of 41pts?

I know the Flames are adding multiple top prospects in the hypothetical deal which balances it out (in my eyes, others think it is a low ball offer and others that don't want to give up our players/prospects).

The deal I mentioned would look like a clear win for Calgary day 1. If Gillies becomes a legit starting goalie, and Fox becomes a top 4 offensive Dman, and Ferland becomes a 40-50pt 20 goal winger the deal likely works out for the Avs. The Flames basically would have to win in the next 2 years because they would not be able to keep Duchene, Tkachuk, Bennett in the same summer
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Old 09-15-2017, 12:57 PM   #2506
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Matt Duchene is a Jordan Eberle type player. Don't pay more that the Islanders did for Eberle. Period.


Disagree. Eberle isn't half the player Duchene is. I'm sure team Canada management would agree.


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you should look in the mirror and worry about yourself.. you fight for scraps in Canada - I've got it made keep tap dancing for a bunch of guys son - I've got it good where it counts boy
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Old 09-15-2017, 12:59 PM   #2507
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If he is the lone roster player moved in a Duchene deal do we really need to keep waiting?
Yes
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Old 09-15-2017, 01:18 PM   #2508
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Originally Posted by Erick Estrada View Post
Oh please! Lets not start painting guys like this as untouchable.
Don't forget, 25 year old career high 25 point players are unicorns.
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Old 09-15-2017, 01:24 PM   #2509
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Yes
Disagree
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Old 09-15-2017, 01:31 PM   #2510
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I wouldn't put Ferland anywhere close to being untouchable on the Flame roster. This is a massive year for him to prove he has what it takes to become a top 6 player in the NHL. He either goes down the path Bouma did or he excels in his role and forces his way into that untouchable group.
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Old 09-15-2017, 01:38 PM   #2511
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I love me some Ferly, but mistaking him for a first line player because he (tentatively) plays on our first line is misguided.

We happen to really need his skillset as what he brings is lacking in the Flames forward group, but I'd agree his league-wide value wouldn't be all that high.

His value to the Flames >> his value on the trade market, which is why it doesn't make sense to dangle him as a trade chip.
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Old 09-15-2017, 02:16 PM   #2512
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I love me some Ferly, but mistaking him for a first line player because he (tentatively) plays on our first line is misguided.

We happen to really need his skillset as what he brings is lacking in the Flames forward group, but I'd agree his league-wide value wouldn't be all that high.

His value to the Flames >> his value on the trade market, which is why it doesn't make sense to dangle him as a trade chip.
I think that is somewhat true but the truth is in the middle. I think people underestimate the value of a skilled power forward which is what Ferland is. Teams will have scouted Ferland and should have seen glimpses of his big potential.

I think Ferland would be very coveted league wide. Skilled powerforwards are in huge demand and there's a limited supply. I think Ferland's already shown enough that he looks on track to be a 2nd line skilled power forward as a floor. That's a very valuable asset.

Look at how high Kassian was taken in his draft year. Look at how much Kassian was traded for early in his career. Traded for a top 10 pick in Hodgson. Of course he later tanked his own value through mediocre play and other issues. But I think it goes to show that people are willing to give up a lot for powerforwards with some skill.

I think a lot of people on this board are guilty of underrating Ferland's upside and value. Treliving recently said in an interview that he thinks Ferland has the best shot on the entire team.
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Old 09-15-2017, 02:20 PM   #2513
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Old 09-15-2017, 02:24 PM   #2514
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You think currently Ferland is anything more than a third line RWer?
Yes. He's currently at least a 2nd line skilled power forward.

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Gillies can't even take an AHL starter job and he's not a long shot?
Rittich's excellent play doesn't diminish Gillies' potential and value. It speaks more about how well Rittich has played. Treliving said recently that many people outside the organization thought Rittich was one of the best goalies in the AHL last year.

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Fox hasn't even played a professional game yet.
Nope but the opinions of scouts and coaches on him seems to be showing that he's increased his value tremendously since being drafted. He's worth at least a 2nd rounder now, maybe more.

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Some of the homer opinions on Flame players is sad. Reminds me of Oiler fans opinions in their non playoff years.
You know what? Sometimes it takes a lot more courage and conviction to identify a player's upside and stick by that. I've been calling Ferland a potential top two line power forward since he first broke in with the Flames and dealt with a lot of posters who said he'd never be more than a 4th liner. You know what doesn't take courage? Taking the pessimistic approach on every player and prospect.

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Fox and Gillies are long shot prospects to anyone who follows prospects and just doesn't call themselves a draft expert on the Internet.
Agree to disagree. Gillies is a big, 6'5 athletic goalie who's won a national championship while playing on a bum hip. He's got all the tools to develop into an NHL goalie. I'm not saying he'll do it right away but he's not a long shot.

I've been a bit more skeptical on Fox because of his size but the year he had, the way he's used by the US National Juniors, the quotes by coaches and scouts are quickly removing that skepticism. He's trending upwards and you don't seem to be willing to acknowledge that.
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Old 09-15-2017, 05:15 PM   #2515
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True but would you bet on a player that is 25 with a career high of 25pts or a 26 year old who has a career low of 41pts?

I know the Flames are adding multiple top prospects in the hypothetical deal which balances it out (in my eyes, others think it is a low ball offer and others that don't want to give up our players/prospects).

The deal I mentioned would look like a clear win for Calgary day 1. If Gillies becomes a legit starting goalie, and Fox becomes a top 4 offensive Dman, and Ferland becomes a 40-50pt 20 goal winger the deal likely works out for the Avs. The Flames basically would have to win in the next 2 years because they would not be able to keep Duchene, Tkachuk, Bennett in the same summer

Partly why I wouldn't do it. If even one of the prospects makes it to potential and then add a 50 point power winger unless you get to the finals this deal is a bust if he doesn't sign or you don't win.not to mention it throws the salary cap out of wack.for the next 2 years.

Yes ferland is 25 but he is also only a third year player. Big skilled good head for the game and the best shot on the team that he is just starting to use regularly. Not a deal I would do unless the price came down significantly which it won't.

I just don't get trying to pick up another hefty price tag player. No team has three first line players on the first line it's all about depth. Kessel didn't play first line, Alex burrows was not a first line player any more than Jacob guentzel with Pittsburgh. Can they look great on the first line ? Sure. Just like Ferland.
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Old 09-15-2017, 05:28 PM   #2516
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As much as I love the pair, have to say Bennett and Ferland are notoriously overrated by Flames fans, especially on here.

They each put up 26 and 25 points respectively. Sure, we can go on about potential and tools, but you can say those things about a lot of players that don't end up filling out that potential at the NHL level. And it's pretty crazy how highly they are spoken about given their resumes so far.

It's a bit Oilerish of us to call them untouchables at this point. Let's see them take the next step before saying such things...
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Old 09-15-2017, 05:35 PM   #2517
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As much as I love the pair, have to say Bennett and Ferland are notoriously overrated by Flames fans, especially on here.

They each put up 26 and 25 points respectively. Sure, we can go on about potential and tools, but you can say those things about a lot of players that don't end up filling out that potential at the NHL level. And it's pretty crazy how highly they are spoken about given their resumes so far.

It's a bit Oilerish of us to call them untouchables at this point. Let's see them take the next step before saying such things...
I'll agree with Ferland. But disagree about Bennett. Almost 4 years of age separate the two. The floor for Bennett IS Ferland. The ceiling.....TBD
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Old 09-15-2017, 05:37 PM   #2518
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Yes. He's currently at least a 2nd line skilled power forward.
If Ferland is a 2nd line power forward then so is Zach Kassian.
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Old 09-15-2017, 05:39 PM   #2519
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Bennett has more room to grow than Ferland, certainly. But he's yet to advance his game to that next level. Though I am encouraged by his series against Anaheim to close out last season. Still needs to carry it over.
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Old 09-15-2017, 06:02 PM   #2520
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Bennett has more room to grow than Ferland, certainly. But he's yet to advance his game to that next level. Though I am encouraged by his series against Anaheim to close out last season. Still needs to carry it over.
Bennett is the same age and Johnny Gaudreau was in his rookie year. He is not a sure fire top line centre but he still has potential to be one
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