Hartley vs. Peters

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

I actually can’t think of a coach in the last decade who consistently gets more out of less than Torts.

He lost an MVP caliber forward and a Vezina winning goalie and made the playoffs anyway.

If he comes available, we should hire him.

Torts is way different than Hartley. Torts goes to bat for his players. Hartley takes a bat to them.

Mind you, even Torts couldn’t do anything with the Canucks.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

I actually can’t think of a coach in the last decade who consistently gets more out of less than Torts.

He lost an MVP caliber forward and a Vezina winning goalie and made the playoffs anyway.

If he comes available, we should hire him.

Torts and AV I always wanted. Not to keep going to the Ex Canucks well for everything lol.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Johnhitbox

Because they were to mean to coach here.

Sent from my SM-N986W using Tapatalk

Don't think this was the case for either coach, but it's also a pretty silly statement regarding Peters given he's a racist.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Torts is way different than Hartley. Torts goes to bat for his players. Hartley takes a bat to them.

Mind you, even Torts couldn’t do anything with the Canucks.

I think he would be fantastic here. Just what this team needs to get motivated consistently. He completely slipped my mind until Table 5 mentioned it but considering this teams number 1 issue besides crappy systems is getting up for games I think he would be great here until his antics wear off.. all we need is two to three good years anyway then this team might be on the way to being post apex the way its looking anyway. Just need the shoe to drop in Ohio....

[CroFlames]

Based on the fact that Torts lived in Point Roberts when he coached the Canucks, I have a feeling he doesn't want to coach in Canada.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Psytic

I think he would be fantastic here. Just what this team needs to get motivated consistently. He completely slipped my mind until Table 5 mentioned it but considering this teams number 1 issue besides crappy systems is getting up for games I think he would be great here until his antics wear off.. all we need is two to three good years anyway then this team might be on the way to being post apex the way its looking anyway. Just need the shoe to drop in Ohio....

and herein is the problem: with this group no coach has gotten even a full year of the kind of consistency that we would want. I think Tortorella would do a lot better than most, but the antics would also probably wear thinner than usual.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

and herein is the problem: with this group no coach has gotten even a full year of the kind of consistency that we would want. I think Tortorella would do a lot better than most, but the antics would also probably wear thinner than usual.

I've lowered my expectations with this organization. All I want is two years of conference final and I'm good for another 30 years. Only half joking.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

If this is what Hartley was charged with doing in Calgary, then it is fair to say that he failed, no?

Huh? What?

No. Absolutely not

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

That alone is reason to hate Babcock, complete D-Bag move for no reason.

But he has a wife and kids. He's a family man.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Psytic

I've lowered my expectations with this organization. All I want is two years of conference final and I'm good for another 30 years. Only half joking.

Hell, give me one visit in the next decade...

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Huh? What?

No. Absolutely not

Hartley's team looked good for a season, but in his last year the hard work and accountability were decidedly absent. I would call that a failure, especially in the light of what followed after 2016.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Torts is way different than Hartley. Torts goes to bat for his players. Hartley takes a bat to them.

Mind you, even Torts couldn’t do anything with the Canucks.

This is another example of you having a strange memory of the things that happened those years.

Hartley wasn’t a coach to call out his players to the media. Even the time he scratched Gaudreau, Monahan and Bouma, he was good about it. He says they were great kids, they broke a team rule and had to be accountable

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Hartley's team looked good for a season, but in his last year the hard work and accountability were decidedly absent. I would call that a failure, especially in the light of what followed after 2016.

I will quote myself from another thread about Geoff Ward

A lot of people just look at the record and bring out their ‘core who quits on every coach’ narrative

It was a young team, expected to regress a bit, that went through a special year. Here is one post I put together to remind some other guy that it wasn’t that simple

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Okay, since you brought it up... let’s talk a bit more about what *really* happened that year.

October and into November, yes they sucked, and dug themselves a hole they couldn’t get out of. New Dougie Hamilton took a while settling in,
(Edit: in his first 9 games he had 1 point and was -11)

Brodie was injured, Gio just coming back from his injury. Hartley couldn’t run a normal practice with 3 goalies, and yeah, they were horrid out of the gates.

All of the goalies were in the .800s for sv% in October. Tre at one point late Oct sent Ramo down

But do you remember how Ramo did in his last 20 games before getting hurt?

Starting Dec 8, through his injury Feb 11 - over those 20 games, his stats were 2.25, .919. Pretty darn good! Very stabilizing.

Now the next 11 games after Ramo’s injury, they were 1-9-1, giving up 5 goals 3 times, and giving up 6 goals 3 times.

Oh, you mentioned “taking a ton of penalties”.

This tells me you really don’t remember that season, so let me remind you.

On Jan 27, 2016 was the Wideman hit on Henderson. So the Flames took a step change up in penalties, almost like they were facing 2 teams some nights

In the first 47 games, prior to Wideman’s crosscheck on Henderson — the Flames averaged 2.62 minors per game. In the 34 games after the incident, they averaged 3.88. That was a 48 per cent jump, for the same Flames team, with the same roster.

Young team with no confidence in goaltending, down a veteran defenseman who also contributed on the PP, and suddenly facing 2 teams?


You go ahead and create the narrative they quit on the coach, but they were a bad young roster, who overcame trash goaltending and D early, had settled things down when Ramo stabilized things, and then when he went down, they were stuck with Hiller and Ortio and a new level of time on the PK, and the confidence vanished

I do remember the PP was abysmal that year.

I agree they reportedly didn’t like the hardass coaching. At the same time, both Darryl Sutter and Hartley had in common that unity / loyalty to their players when the media was on them

Anyways, that’s it for this little stroll down memory lane.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Hartley's team looked good for a season, but in his last year the hard work and accountability were decidedly absent. I would call that a failure, especially in the light of what followed after 2016.

The team also tuned him out, by then he had turned the bullying up to 11.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by btimbit

The team also tuned him out, by then he had turned the bullying up to 11.

Yeah, read my post above. The team hadn’t tuned him out. They were certainly mentally fragile but there was a lot going on that year

Let me guess.

Dennis Wideman hated Hartley so much that he deliberately ran in to Don Henderson

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Yeah, read my post above. The team hadn’t tuned him out. They were certainly mentally fragile but there was a lot going on that year

Let me guess.

Dennis Wideman hated Hartley so much that he deliberately ran in to Don Henderson

According to Burke after the playoffs Hartley went from being a hard-ass to outright being a raging bully. That's when they tuned him out

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I will quote myself from another thread about Geoff Ward

I am about as impressed now as I was when you first posted this.

A lot of people just look at the record and bring out their ‘core who quits on every coach’ narrative

It was a young team, expected to regress a bit, that went through a special year. Here is one post I put together to remind some other guy that it wasn’t that simple...

Until the team can demonstrate a change from an established pattern, they remain a group of players that continue to look progressively worse under every coach for whom they have played. I am guessing that some of the reason for this has to do with what happened under Hartley, and how it was addressed by management. That is not to say that Hartley was the right coach—I tend to think that the transition from him to Gulutzan was too drastic, and happened at the wrong time.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by btimbit

According to Burke after the playoffs Hartley went from being a hard-ass to outright being a raging bully. That's when they tuned him out

I’ve got the book, those are your words, not Burke’s

I’m not disputing that some coaches have a shelf life, or that he was expected to last any longer.

Some players don’t like the hardass approach to coaching. Big deal. That’s what assistant coaches are for.

But consider these facts
- Burke is commenting on a management decision made under his watch. You think he’s going to tell you it was wrong? Lol
- Treliving was a rookie GM
- GMs generally choose their coach
- Hartley wasn’t Tre’s guy

Hartley had just been brought in and had done some of the dirty work. Tre comes in and sees what he has for the year, then Bob wins the Jack Adams. Can’t fire him then

Like I say, I don’t dispute that coaches have a shelf life. They are hired to be fired.

But this ‘he’s a raging bully’ nonsense is probably more in the heads of a lot of posters here.
The whole ‘the coach killing Flames quit on him’ strikes me as BS as well.

The story, like any story, has many more factors

But whatever floats your boat.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

The story, like any story, has many more factors

When did I say otherwise?

I replied to a poster who mentioned they looked like they quit on him.

Then you jumped down my throat arguing something completely different. It's two different discussions

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

This is another example of you having a strange memory of the things that happened those years.

Hartley wasn’t a coach to call out his players to the media. Even the time he scratched Gaudreau, Monahan and Bouma, he was good about it. He says they were great kids, they broke a team rule and had to be accountable

Who’s talking about calling them out to the media? That’s my whole point about him being two-faced. Mr. Jovial to the press. Complete ass clown behind closed doors. Not just in a tough love way. In the manipulative, humiliation-based kind of way.