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Old 02-16-2020, 09:26 PM   #41
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My main problem with this coach is I didn't see any improvement the team's game except some line mixing. He's lines don't have identity. All lines try to play same plan dump and chase, so our 1st line is failed.
Our D gives other team all the space and time very easy. They allow other team enter the zone easily ant try to keep outside but our D not big that can break other teams circling.
May be it is good to listen the players and accept their opinion, but for me it means he doesn't have his system, or can't implement best system for this players and make players to trust the system and follow him.
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Old 02-05-2021, 01:20 PM   #42
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Bumping in hopes that the Ward discussion spread out over 5 different threads can be consolidated. It’s remarkable actually how relevant the OP’s breakdown is a year later. All the points from veteran favouritism to bad line matching and transitions are things everyone has been analyzing in great detail this past week.
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Old 02-05-2021, 01:23 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack View Post
Bumping in hopes that the Ward discussion spread out over 5 different threads can be consolidated. It’s remarkable actually how relevant the OP’s breakdown is a year later. All the points from veteran favouritism to bad line matching and transitions are things everyone has been analyzing in great detail this past week.
Line matching issues, poor systems / transitions etc. have been themes around the flames going back a long while.
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Old 02-05-2021, 01:28 PM   #44
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Line matching issues, poor systems / transitions etc. have been themes around the flames going back a long while.
Its as if refusing to spend the required money on a coach has had the same predictable results, over and over again.
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Old 02-05-2021, 01:28 PM   #45
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Darryl said he'd come back and coach the Alberta teams, Tre is just too insecure to bring him back.
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Old 02-05-2021, 01:36 PM   #46
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I read this post thinking it was current and not realizing it was bumped, yet it is almost a year old, and still on point.
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Old 02-05-2021, 01:39 PM   #47
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It's like they think coaching has minimal impact. The style of thinking that leads you to say things like. "Oh I could coach the Lightning and they would still win because of their talent".
Ignoring the fact that in every single sport in existence that there is a clear demonstrable difference between low and high tier coaching and their impact on the outcome of the team.

Just because I could coach the lightning to be successful doesn't mean someone else couldn't do a 10x better job.

I don't think the Flames are nearly as bad as are being said to be recently. I truly believe they're a great team. If they had better coaching it would obviously breed better results which breeds confidence which breeds wins and better play and more willingness to compete harder or go out on the limb because the results of doing so are based in truth not in hope.

I was willing to give Ward a shot and I still have completely lost hope yet either, but my god. Enough of the bargain bin bull#### or trying to find the new and upcoming coach.
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Old 02-05-2021, 01:40 PM   #48
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Talking about firing coaches every year is getting old. I don’t think Ward is outstanding but at this point I think it’s just lazy to argue that he’s the reason they’re failing.

How about the fact that Bennett, Leivo, Nordstrom, and Simon (so 25% of our forwards assuming 3 of them play every night) have combined for a whopping 2 points this season? Even Lucic has 3 points. Or what about the cliff that Gio and Backlund decided to jump off this year?

Bottom line for me is that while the coach might not be great it still comes down to the players, and I think this year the depth players have failed miserably. None of the new forwards have contributed anything even remotely positive to the team.

So if the players aren’t good enough who do you look at? The players, obviously, but I think you put Treliving on the hot seat before Ward. It might be time to consider that Treliving has taken the team as far as he can. A fresh set of eyes may be beneficial. And I say this as someone who likes Treliving and overall would consider his body of work to be good.
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Old 02-05-2021, 01:43 PM   #49
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The coach was an interim coach for the longest time, but he seems to just have morphed into the defacto coach. I don't know why it's now so unreasonable to question the coach which even management questioned by the fact he was interim for so long.
If you look at patterns, its pretty easy to make the case that long term responsible players like Backlund are regressing in their play, players are lethargic and now there's players wanting out of the dressing room.

His abilities are not mutually exclusive of needing roster shake-ups with the core. The team needs an identity or at least something to build around. They aren't particularly big, fast, skilled, gritty, or any other adjective.

I find it funny that the one person people come up with is Johnny. Drives me crazy. Fine get rid of him, but don't think that Sean is going to suddenly gel with other players or stop being soft as ice-cream and giving the puck away. All Johnny will do is put the spotlight on the incredible lack of skill there is on the roster, which I guess in a way is a good thing if we're talking retooling.
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Old 02-05-2021, 01:43 PM   #50
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Sorry, I didn't read all that. I skimmed though and I didn't see anything about contracts that Calgary is already paying out. Aren't they still paying Peters? Plus, Ward is signed for what, 2 years?
I don't see a coaching change happening. Do they want to pay 3 coaching contracts at the same time?

* ####, I just noticed it's an old thread bump.
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Old 02-05-2021, 01:44 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack View Post
Bumping in hopes that the Ward discussion spread out over 5 different threads can be consolidated. It’s remarkable actually how relevant the OP’s breakdown is a year later. All the points from veteran favouritism to bad line matching and transitions are things everyone has been analyzing in great detail this past week.
I read the OP not realizing it was a year old. The numbers seemed off and yet nothing else did. Good, scary, bump.
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Old 02-05-2021, 01:49 PM   #52
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Its as if refusing to spend the required money on a coach has had the same predictable results, over and over again.
The examples of spending a lot on a coach and having a big impact are few and far between. Look at Babcock, McLellan, Julien, Quenneville, DeBoer... And then look at coaches like Cooper or Sullivan who do well without being paid a lot.

I think few coaches are good enough that they make an impact on a team that's otherwise mediocre. Hell, even Trotz is not doing well with the Isles.

I don't think Ward is a great coach or anything, nor were any other Treliving hires. Or any coaches hired by Sutter or Feaster. I am not convinced it's because of a lack of money, though.
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Old 02-05-2021, 01:52 PM   #53
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Great post and great thread.

Is this roster perfect? No it isn't, and improvements can me made to help the coach but it's clear that the coach is not the solution.

Doesn't matter how good the roster is when the coach utilizes them as poorly as Ward does.

Honestly Nordstrom on the top line at any point should be a fireable offence.
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Old 02-05-2021, 01:56 PM   #54
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...I don't think Ward is a great coach or anything, nor were any other Treliving hires. Or any coaches hired by Sutter or Feaster. I am not convinced it's because of a lack of money, though.
This is where I am at, but I am also not convinced that a better, or more expensive coach is going to yield significantly better results. So much of what I see going wrong in the games has to do with a lot of really poor decision making by the players from one moment to the next. It is not an especially mentally-strong group; they seem to get very easily flustered and thrown off their game.

The powerplay is a prime example of this right now: It was lights-out to start the season, and featured a bunch of really creative and effective new looks. For the last few games it has looked awful. So, we know that the coaches can put together a dynamic powerplay and the players can execute it. Right now it looks like they are overthinking everything.
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Old 02-05-2021, 02:00 PM   #55
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It's absolutely wild that Treliving used his last remaining bullet on Geoff Ward.
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Old 02-05-2021, 02:02 PM   #56
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I dont like the system he is implementing. But I am pretty sure the players arent executing it right either. So who knows, maybe it's a good system.

As for the person himself, Ward just doesn't have that "leader" presence. He seems shy and bit awkward socially. Not a great speaker. No track record to lean on either. When you compare him to our other coaches, he just seems so mellow. Too mellow.
Bill Peters was a leader. In retrospect an ahole and all, but a good leader. He was very confident, enthusiastic and energetic. When he spoke, you listened. Quite frankly, he was a great guy to listen to.
Gulutzan is a great speaker too, but came off overconfident. His track record suggested that he was spewing BS. Players probably didnt respect him for that. He had that "smartest guy in the room" vibe, but with nothing to back it up. A good interview to be sure.

Sutter was a presence. Players respected him and were afraid of him. A guy that talked the talk and walked the walk. NHL experience is important. He knows what his players are going through day to day.

The closest comparison to Ward is Don Hay A quiet guy that had a short stint here. Just didnt seem like a guy that could make millionaires work hard.
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Old 02-05-2021, 02:04 PM   #57
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I look at the '12 Kings, the '16 Pens, and the '19 Blues, and think why can't something similar happen here?

Heck, even look at the struggling '96 Sabres (a team that had an elite goalie, just like we do now) who were turned around by Ted Nolan the following year. He is available...

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Old 02-05-2021, 02:04 PM   #58
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The deal with Ward is he is coach of this team if he succeeds or Tre is fired. I like Tre a lot, but I think it’s going to be the latter.
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Old 02-05-2021, 02:04 PM   #59
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The man has been head coach in the NHL for a grand total of 52 regular season hockey games.

52.

Im not sold he is the guy that should be here, but i do know that there is simply far to little data to know, for sure, one way or the other. Particularly when we know that the majority of the core of this roster has been constant throughout 3 head coaches now. 4 to a lesser extent.

Niether one of his seasons have been any where near to "normal" of his tenure either. He took over under difficult circumstances and with COVID they have continued.

I think he should at least be given a chance, even if the early returns aren't as promising as one would hope. Every good, and bad, coach has had poor streaks in their careers.

Patience is a virtue sometimes, and since nothing will change as far as coaching and management until at least the "summer"....may as well see if it gets better or not before going off the deep end.
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Old 02-05-2021, 02:07 PM   #60
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Quote:
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The examples of spending a lot on a coach and having a big impact are few and far between. Look at Babcock, McLellan, Julien, Quenneville, DeBoer... And then look at coaches like Cooper or Sullivan who do well without being paid a lot.

I think few coaches are good enough that they make an impact on a team that's otherwise mediocre. Hell, even Trotz is not doing well with the Isles.

I don't think Ward is a great coach or anything, nor were any other Treliving hires. Or any coaches hired by Sutter or Feaster. I am not convinced it's because of a lack of money, though.
Every good coach has to start somewhere. Thus the Sullivans and Coopers. But a lot of those new coaches will not amount to much.

And since you brought up some newer coaches that did well, Travis Green is the next one in line IMO. Nuckleheads want him fired, but really, he had that team play excellent hockey in the last few years. A team that was lacking talent. I think he had them overachieve.

Would love to see Green here.
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