Tij Iginla ranked No. 6 overall by Elite Prospects for 2024 NHL Draft

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

No my point had nothing to do with Tij. It's about the draft in general and that every single year fans think they know who should be taken when and overreact when it doesn't happen.

Then you look back on the draft years later and see how wrong everybody was in many cases so overreacting on draft day is a fools folly.

I don't think Tij should or will go 2nd overall based on what we know now, but 10 years from now people might look back and go "holy crap, Tij would actually go 1st overall in a redraft because he's had the best career of anyone in that draft" so if someone takes him 2nd overall maybe time will prove them right even though everyone will think they're looney and should be fired when it happens.

Isn’t this how you get a Jankowski though?

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Isn’t this how you get a Jankowski though?

What are you even talking about? lol

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Isn’t this how you get a Jankowski though?

Getting Jankowski was entirely due to a management (Feaster and Weisbrod) team that thought they were smarter than everyone else and likely didn't listen to their scouting staff.

If he had been picked in the 2nd round, nobody bats an eye, but trading down from numerous spots from 14 to select an off board player at 21 when more than a handful of highly regarded prospects were still available was nonsensical.

This has nothing to do with the 2024 situation and from everything we know/have heard, the Flames won't be getting a Jankowski in R1 no matter what they do.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I wonder who Feaster was about to trade our 1st for before pivoting after Weisbrod told him not to trade it.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

What are you even talking about? lol

I’m talking about picking a guy way higher because you think years from now he will be thought of as the best player in his draft.

Isn’t that just what you are talking about?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Getting Jankowski was entirely due to a management (Feaster and Weisbrod) team that thought they were smarter than everyone else and likely didn't listen to their scouting staff.

If he had been picked in the 2nd round, nobody bats an eye, but trading down from numerous spots from 14 to select an off board player at 21 when more than a handful of highly regarded prospects were still available was nonsensical.

This has nothing to do with the 2024 situation and from everything we know/have heard, the Flames won't be getting a Jankowski in R1 no matter what they do.

It’s an exaggeration compared to 2024 but it’s picking a guy higher than he’s ranked because you believe he’s better than the others and time will prove you right.

You are right, picking Iginla 2nd rather than 11th may not be as egregious but it’s the same mindset.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I’m talking about picking a guy way higher because you think years from now he will be thought of as the best player in his draft.

Isn’t that just what you are talking about?

This whole convo started because somebody said they'd question Conroy's abilities as a GM if he took Tij 2nd overall after winning that pick.

And I said what if Tij ended up being the best player taken in the draft when you look back at it years from now, which is clearly possible and happens all the time.

It was just to point out the over reaction we see all the time from fans when a front office does something they don't like.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

This whole convo started because somebody said they'd question Conroy's abilities as a GM if he took Tij 2nd overall after winning that pick.

And I said what if Tij ended up being the best player taken in the draft when you look back at it years from now, which is clearly possible and happens all the time.

It was just to point out the over reaction we see all the time from fans when a front office does something they don't like.

Sure, draft orders change. But picking a guy ranking around 11 at 2? That doesn’t work very often I bet. For every Jarome there’s a dozen guys who aren’t way better in a redraft.

If Conroy picks Iginla 2OA, I think his judgment would have to be questioned. I don’t think that’s a serious possibility though.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

This whole convo started because somebody said they'd question Conroy's abilities as a GM if he took Tij 2nd overall after winning that pick.

And I said what if Tij ended up being the best player taken in the draft when you look back at it years from now, which is clearly possible and happens all the time.

It was just to point out the over reaction we see all the time from fans when a front office does something they don't like.

Fans would have every right to be upset if Conroy took Tij Iginla at #2 instead of trading down and getting extra assets and getting the same player. It would be very poor general managing.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Fans would have every right to be upset if Conroy took Tij Iginla at #2 instead of trading down and getting extra assets and getting the same player. It would be very poor general managing.

That's fair.

[YyjFlames]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Fans would have every right to be upset if Conroy took Tij Iginla at #2 instead of trading down and getting extra assets and getting the same player. It would be very poor general managing.

You never know what other team has their eyes on a player, particularly this year where there's so much variation in the top 15. If a team wants a player and doesn't think he'll be there a few picks later, they'll take him without trading down.

Steve Yzerman took Moritz Seider 6th overall in the 2019 draft -- his first year with Detroit -- and that selection raised eyebrows at the time about why Detroit didn't trade down because Seider was ranked in the back half of the first round. Turns out that that was the right pick, and it was probably good he didn't trade down.

Canadian teams deal with different pressure though (as seen on this board all the time), and not many GMs have the reputation of Steve Yzerman. So that could factor into not reaching... particularly if Calgary were to jump up to 2nd only to pick a guy many people think would have been there at 9.

[Tbull8]

Great segment on Flames talk about Tij. Kinda echoes how I feel. If hes there at 9, just take him. Yes there’s pressure. But idk how that’s any more than the pressure on whoever you take instead of Tij.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Tbull8

Great segment on Flames talk about Tij. Kinda echoes how I feel. If hes there at 9, just take him. Yes there’s pressure. But idk how that’s any more than the pressure on whoever you take instead of Tij.

I think there is some flaw to that line of thinking. For instance, what happens if Demidov somehow slips to 9? There is a significant upside difference between him and Tij. There will be pressure regardless, you take the BPA on your list. If that ends up Tij you take him, if it isn't you don't. There was definitely a difference of opinion with Steinberg typically getting sentimental in his line of thinking and Vickers more in line with what I am preaching.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by YyjFlames

You never know what other team has their eyes on a player, particularly this year where there's so much variation in the top 15. If a team wants a player and doesn't think he'll be there a few picks later, they'll take him without trading down.

Steve Yzerman took Moritz Seider 6th overall in the 2019 draft -- his first year with Detroit -- and that selection raised eyebrows at the time about why Detroit didn't trade down because Seider was ranked in the back half of the first round. Turns out that that was the right pick, and it was probably good he didn't trade down.

Canadian teams deal with different pressure though (as seen on this board all the time), and not many GMs have the reputation of Steve Yzerman. So that could factor into not reaching... particularly if Calgary were to jump up to 2nd only to pick a guy many people think would have been there at 9.

Seider worked out OK. But Edmonton, in the same draft, did an identical move taking Broberg 8th. Ahead of higher ranked Cozens, Caulfield, Zegras, etc. Broberg is heading towards bust territory.

[FanIn80]

Great point. If you take Tij, there's pressure on Tij... if you don't take Tij, there's pressure on the guy you took instead of taking Tij. So all things considered, Tij it is.

[Tbull8]

Like people have said before, it’s an entertainment business end of the day. If Tij is in the same tier I think you have to take him. But agreed on a guy like Demidov, who is clearly a tier above. You can’t pass on him

[browntrout]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I didn't think any of that matters. Look at the roster from 3 years ago and compare to today. It's irrelevant what today's roster looks like

I agree with you on this one, rebuild is early, there will be lots of veteran turnover in the next few years, if they feel he is the BPA, they should absolutely select him, this team has so many holes to fill and a general lack of elite talent at all positions that they aren't going to able to fill all these needs in 2 years

[Bourque's Twin]

Originally Posted by Tbull8

Like people have said before, it’s an entertainment business end of the day. If Tij is in the same tier I think you have to take him. But agreed on a guy like Demidov, who is clearly a tier above. You can’t pass on him

Tij has worked himself from what I'd call Tier 4 of the draft forwards to tier 3. Eiserman and Lindstrom have seemed to drop out of Tier 2 and into Tier 3.

Tier 1 - Celebrini
Tier 2 - Demidov
Tier 3 - Lindstrom, Eiserman, Catton, Iginla.
Tier 4 - Helenius, Greentree, Connelly, Hage. Maybe 1 or 2 more.

For defence, the top 10 draft picks are comprised of,

Tier 1 - Levshunov, Parekh
Tier 2 - Buium, Dickinson
Tier 3 - Silayev, Yakemchuk

If the Flames pick #1, it's Celebrini.
If the Flames pick #2, it's Demidov, Levshunov, or Parekh.
If the Flames pick #9, it's a Tier 3 forward or Tier 2 D. My selfish pick is Iginla followed by Buium who I don't think will be there.

[Tbull8]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

Tij has worked himself from what I'd call Tier 4 of the draft forwards to tier 3. Eiserman and Lindstrom have seemed to drop out of Tier 2 and into Tier 3.

Tier 1 - Celebrini
Tier 2 - Demidov
Tier 3 - Lindstrom, Eiserman, Catton, Iginla.
Tier 4 - Helenius, Greentree, Connelly, Hage. Maybe 1 or 2 more.

For defence, the top 10 draft picks are comprised of,

Tier 1 - Levshunov, Parekh
Tier 2 - Buium, Dickinson
Tier 3 - Silayev, Yakemchuk

If the Flames pick #1, it's Celebrini.
If the Flames pick #2, it's Demidov, Levshunov, or Parekh.
If the Flames pick #9, it's a Tier 3 forward or Tier 2 D. My selfish pick is Iginla followed by Buium who I don't think will be there.

I'd almost put Parekh in the same tier as Buium and Dickinson. Offensive upside is incredible but definitely some question marks still. Levshunov imo is the only one without any true questions

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Tbull8

I'd almost put Parekh in the same tier as Buium and Dickinson. Offensive upside is incredible but definitely some question marks still. Levshunov imo is the only one without any true questions

I've said this before on Parekh, but D can be taught*... the offensive instincts this guys has you have to be born with.

*depending on teachability, toolbox, etc