Is it time to call up Mathew Phillips?

[genetic_phreek]

You look at the Avs, a lot of us here would think they are the cream of the crop of the west. They are so deep on their top 6, yet they still have Newhook (same draft as Pelletier) and Jost (same draft as Phillips) playing in their bottom 6. That is why the organization is more successful than us. I've said this before, we would rather have "proven" NHL veterans, the likes of Richardson, Pitlick, Ritchie over the Phillips and Pelletiers. in previous years the Fantanbergs, Forborts over the Kylington, Valimakis.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

You look at the Avs, a lot of us here would think they are the cream of the crop of the west. They are so deep on their top 6, yet they still have Newhook (same draft as Pelletier) and Jost (same draft as Phillips) playing in their bottom 6. That is why the organization is more successful than us. I've said this before, we would rather have "proven" NHL veterans, the likes of Richardson, Pitlick, Ritchie over the Phillips and Pelletiers. in previous years the Fantanbergs, Forborts over the Kylington, Valimakis.

while I understand the point you are trying to make it's probably worth pointing out that Jost was the 10th overall pick of the 2016 draft ( a draft where in addition the Flames draft has put not only Tkachuk, Dube and Fox playing regularly in the NHL)

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

You look at the Avs, a lot of us here would think they are the cream of the crop of the west. They are so deep on their top 6, yet they still have Newhook (same draft as Pelletier) and Jost (same draft as Phillips) playing in their bottom 6. That is why the organization is more successful than us. I've said this before, we would rather have "proven" NHL veterans, the likes of Richardson, Pitlick, Ritchie over the Phillips and Pelletiers. in previous years the Fantanbergs, Forborts over the Kylington, Valimakis.

Our old boy lines started out fine early in the season before the level of compete began to elevate. Now it's more obvious that they will get outplayed against the depth of any playoff caliber team.

You always have to be working a couple young guys in as you go IMO, that would be my philosophy. Have your vets, but don't rely on vets entirely. Just keep one or two of your more seasoned prospects getting NHL experience, even if the role is sheltered, and keep the guys that are up playing games rotating. Otherwise you don't know what you have in your system if you need to call upon one to be a regular for a stretch in an emergency, and you don't know where your prospects are in terms of NHL readiness. Using only camp as a gauge is a limited way of measuring the progress of your prospects IMO, because most haven't got their legs under them yet.

The way teams like Detroit and San Jose managed two decades of sustained competitiveness before they eventually ended up where they are now (and you could argue SJ is still kicking) is because beyond their strong drafting history, they always had young players getting worked into their groups being bred for NHL duty even before they really showed they were cut out for it. Eventually that paid off for them as they progressed from year to year and those young bottom six players would eventually emerge as their next top players.

Feels like a more "sustainable" philosophy for competitiveness rather than rounding up journeymen in august and september who couldn't land contracts elsewhere. If you don't have new young guys in the cooker at all times and you fail with your glut of vets, it also makes the outlook of things rather bleak. And that's been the script here for as long as I can remember.

[powderjunkie]

I wonder if any team has fewer than 89 NHL games (Valimaki + 8 from Ruzicka) from all of their picks since 2017? (of course Valimaki was the only pick in the top 100 in 2017 and 2018...)

[looooob]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

I wonder if any team has fewer than 89 NHL games (Valimaki + 8 from Ruzicka) from all of their picks since 2017? (of course Valimaki was the only pick in the top 100 in 2017 and 2018...)

I'd be afraid to look, but you are probably right. really that is mostly on 2018- where they were just scorched earth on picks- 2019 and beyond you would have liked to have seen Pelletier with a cup of coffee at least- but between injuries and covid and bubbles and etc you can excuse 2019 and later, and 2017, well Valimaki it is fits and starts but you have 2 guys who have played- 2018 is the sinker here.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

I wonder if any team has fewer than 89 NHL games (Valimaki + 8 from Ruzicka) from all of their picks since 2017? (of course Valimaki was the only pick in the top 100 in 2017 and 2018...)

The Pens have just 39 since 2016...only 6 of which have been for themselves (Calen Addison and F Gustavsson being elsewhere). WAS and TBL are higher, but there are probably a few other 'win-now' teams who are lower.

[SuperMatt18]

Honestly if there is a reason that Treliving should lose his job it's because of that he did to our drafts in 2017 and 2018.

Having 1 pick in the top 3 rounds of each of those drafts, when the team should have still been building was horrific.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

You look at the Avs, a lot of us here would think they are the cream of the crop of the west. They are so deep on their top 6, yet they still have Newhook (same draft as Pelletier) and Jost (same draft as Phillips) playing in their bottom 6. That is why the organization is more successful than us. I've said this before, we would rather have "proven" NHL veterans, the likes of Richardson, Pitlick, Ritchie over the Phillips and Pelletiers. in previous years the Fantanbergs, Forborts over the Kylington, Valimakis.

There is a simple answer to this. Phillips isn't anywhere near as good as Jost or Newhook. Pelletier is a year off from being the player he should be. In preseason he looked to light and weak to him the battles he wins in the AHL. He needs a little time. Sure the Flames could rush Pelletier, but it isn't worth derailing his development.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bingo

There are currently five players on the active roster that play meaningful minutes and were developed in the Calgary farm system. Three others that were drafted and went straight to the NHL.

The team acquired a backup goaltender with next to no NHL experience.

You honestly think Sutter is just being force fed NHL veterans that played and won for Sutter against Sutter's wishes? Seriously?

There are 5 - Mangiapane, Dube, Kylington, Andersson and Ruzicka (though he’s barely on the roster. But none of those guys outside of Kylington played more than 2 full seasons in the farm and I think you could argue Kylington may well have been held back too long. The others were all given healthy looks well before.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

There is a simple answer to this. Phillips isn't anywhere near as good as Jost or Newhook. Pelletier is a year off from being the player he should be. In preseason he looked to light and weak to him the battles he wins in the AHL. He needs a little time. Sure the Flames could rush Pelletier, but it isn't worth derailing his development.

and he probably shouldn't be , those guys were 10OV and 16OV picks, Phillips 6th round


the last Flames player taking in the top 10 to spend any real time in the minors that I can recall was Eric Nystrom, drafted 20 years ago

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by looooob

I'd be afraid to look, but you are probably right. really that is mostly on 2018- where they were just scorched earth on picks- 2019 and beyond you would have liked to have seen Pelletier with a cup of coffee at least- but between injuries and covid and bubbles and etc you can excuse 2019 and later, and 2017, well Valimaki it is fits and starts but you have 2 guys who have played- 2018 is the sinker here.

And tbf there are only four players draft after Pelletier in 2019 with more than 17gp; two others in double digits and another dozen or so with a few games.

Jake Neighbours with 9gp is the only guy after Zary with more than 2gp.

Even 2018 there are only a handful of guys after pick 12 who are NHL regulars: Dobson, Farabee, Lundestrom, K Miller, Sandin.

But this means we are only just barely beginning to feel the pain from having so little in those drafts

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by looooob

and he probably shouldn't be , those guys were 10OV and 16OV picks, Phillips 6th round


the last Flames player taking in the top 10 to spend any real time in the minors that I can recall was Eric Nystrom, drafted 20 years ago

They only had 4 top 10s in all that time. I wonder if Bennett would have benefitted.

[looooob]

sorry responding to a few different posts here


1. Backlund fits into either Bingo's group one or two- not sure which. probably group one, so I guess with Ruzicka we are at 6+3


2. Yes I realize we have had very few top 10 picks in 2002- which is a separate interesting point- just making the observation that they all play. when you get to Newhook at 16 then for the Flames you are bringing in the Baertschi tier

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by looooob

sorry responding to a few different posts here


1. Backlund fits into either Bingo's group one or two- not sure which. probably group one, so I guess with Ruzicka we are at 6+3


2. Yes I realize we have had very few top 10 picks in 2002- which is a separate interesting point- just making the observation that they all play. when you get to Newhook at 16 then for the Flames you are bringing in the Baertschi tier

I think the point on top 10 picks is you really need a few of those to get a lot of quick entries into the NHL. Treliving has actually tried to address it a bit by trading for guys who were top 10 - Hanifin, Lindholm, Hamilton, and of course Gudbranson

[talladega.25]

What is everyone's thoughts on this? How many games have we lost due to our ability to finish/score outside of 13-28-19, PP1&2? I feel like we have games where we loose while mustering up 30-35+ shots/game. I feel that our depth is costing us games where a goal or two would help secure wins in the past and moving forward.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

Maybe your right but he played just as well in the AHL as Phillips.

Disagree. Phillips drove that line. Ruzicka was the beneficiary, more often than not.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Disagree. Phillips drove that line. Ruzicka was the beneficiary, more often than not.

What about this year? Wasn’t it Pelletier and Ruzicka tearing it up together? Then Ruzicka got the call? Phillips has been on a tear since?

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

What about this year? Wasn’t it Pelletier and Ruzicka tearing it up together? Then Ruzicka got the call? Phillips has been on a tear since?

Phillips has been strong all season. His production has remained pretty consistent since the start. Those three were the line to start the year and then Gawdin replaced Ruzicka. Both Pelletier and Phillips have remained extremely effective regardless of their centre.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

You look at the Avs, a lot of us here would think they are the cream of the crop of the west. They are so deep on their top 6, yet they still have Newhook (same draft as Pelletier) and Jost (same draft as Phillips) playing in their bottom 6. That is why the organization is more successful than us. I've said this before, we would rather have "proven" NHL veterans, the likes of Richardson, Pitlick, Ritchie over the Phillips and Pelletiers. in previous years the Fantanbergs, Forborts over the Kylington, Valimakis.

That first overall pick that can skate pretty good might be part of it too!

[TheScorpion]

And the Flames have never bottomed out long enough to get even a single top-3 pick. That shows a lack of conviction.