Darryl Sutter is not the elephant in the room. He is highly accomplished with a track record for success. Can't say that about his players. Why in the world are we even talking about the coach at this point?
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Wow, don’t know who could have predicted that Darryl Sutter was the wrong coach at the wrong time for this team?
I think it's too soon to talk about Sutter not being the right coach here. Quite frankly I'd rather work towards a Sutter team than a JG and Monahan team that get's destroyed every playoffs.
Who is the right coach that would make Sean Monahan in to a good C that can live up to his 6'3 frame?
Which coach would teach MT how to skate?
Which coach would insert some ba##s in to JG or Backlund?
Which coach turns Valimaki and Dube in to solid NHLers in 20 games?
Who is the coach that would take the rest of those very flawed players and make them successful?
This team is lead by a very old Gio, very soft and scared JG and a butter soft top line C that can't outskate a grade schooler. And then there is Matthew Tkachuk. What a warrior LOL.
One of them struggling would be an issue. All of them struggling at the same time is a disaster.
Not sure I agree on the drafting and development given the work they've done in the last several years. Lots of young players on the roster that they've developed as well.
Pro scouting that got them Brouwer and Neal should be looked at.
And then I guess the biggest thing is the assumption that you can build a competitive NHL team around a top line with Monahan and Gaudreau. Whose fault is that? Was it a reasonable assumption?
David Poile has had a job for life, the Flames have flown through executives since Fletcher left.
Player assessment seems like a huge weakness for the organization. They appear to have tremendous difficulty with seeing players for what they are and making the right decisions about who to acquire and keep and who to cut bait with. Even when they do make the right call to cut bait they frequently do so when the asset value has plummeted.
In the end, the results speak for themselves: one series win in seven years while spending to the cap for almost the entire time.
Last offseason I thought they should trade one of Monahan or Gaudreau and the Gaudreau proposals, plus his contract, made him the more logical choice.
I don't know if anyone seriously talked about trading either after Colorado. They'd finished first. They'd scored like crazy. And no trade would have gotten an elite 1C. So you either blow it up completely and tank for a 1C (and who was coming up in that role in the draft - Jack Hughes?)
I agree that the team isn't successful, it's been 7 years, they've spent to the cap, etc. So on results, yes, you can justify firing Treliving. But unless you believe this team was always a coach away from success (which Sutter is disproving), there's not very many moves Treliving made that were illogical and sometimes even the only ones available.
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Wow, don’t know who could have predicted that Darryl Sutter was the wrong coach at the wrong time for this team?
What is it with much of this fanbase and the incessant need to either have a coach or goalie to blame the many shortcomings of the team on? We could bring in Trotz and some fans would still find something to deflect on him when the team inevitably quits.
The team is just not good. Most of the players are good complementary pieces only, and this is on Treliving for failing to realize and act to adjust the core at any point in the last 3-4 seasons when any fan could of said something is wrong with the team.
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I hate to tell you this, but I’ve just launched an air biscuit
Last edited by Hot_Flatus; 04-20-2021 at 09:26 AM.
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People blaming the two time Stanley Cup winning coach after a handful of games in a Covid shortened season with a core that doesn't work. Edgy.
We were all happy when they brought Sutter in to see if this core would fold, and to the surprise of no one they have. Trade them off for players who give a Damn and it will be addition by subtraction even if the new players aren't flashy.
We aren't going to acquire a McDavid or Mackinnon without a major tank and a whole lotta luck so the best chance this team has is to play with structure and play hard every night. The laziness of this core is on full display against teams like Ottawa.
Is Treliving the guy to trust to make these trades? I don't think so, but also don't see him getting canned so I am just hoping he is not scared of "losing" a trade on paper and we don't have another season with this current dud of a team. CP will probably melt down over the return on these guys but the time has come to move on and try a different approach with Darryl at the helm. If it doesn't work under Sutters current contract then it's time to blow it up.
Treliving being the second best GM this team has had is akin to me stating I would be the fastest person in my nephews kindergarten class. Based on the poor results of the club in general, save for the 80s, Brad being second best is futile.
What looked to be the next Kane/Toewes (a first line)
1st pairing top D
No Goalie.
Cap Space
If he leaves today, the new GM will have:
Maybe 1 first line player (Lindholm)
No top pairing D
Decent G
No cap space
Needless to say it's been an abject failure. I equate hockey to sales - you have your pipe/funnel build (prospects), then you work on closing (winning) which can hurt your pipeline build, but that's OK because you are closing business. Then once business is closed you have to focus on pipe build again.
Treliving went from pipe build to closing, but he didn't close anything. Now we have zero closed business (wins) and no pipeline. In my world he would be on a performance plan, and would likely resign as he would see there is no way he could turn it around before getting his ass fired.
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The team wouldn't do so bad if Dube, Ryan, Ritchie, Leivo, and Nordstrom could actually show some consistently good hockey instead of being all over the ice like timbits hockey.
Our top 5 in Tkachuk, Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm and Backlund is at least serviceable. The other guys? Not able to make anything happen on the ice.
This is the worse bottom 6 I've ever seen the flames ice. And a pretty bland top 6 to boot.
Still think two scenarios happen Treliving stays and Lombardi comes onboard as President of hockey operations. They let everyone else go Conroy, Pascal, and Mahoney.
Or Treliving and co gets the axe and Lombardi becomes the new GM.
^ Tre's current deal apparently gives him the authority the POHO would have. So they wouldn't be hiring for that position while he is under contract. Scenario 2 I could see. He's still very close with Sutter and the two of them did win together in L.A.
Still think two scenarios happen Treliving stays and Lombardi comes onboard as President of hockey operations. They let everyone else go Conroy, Pascal, and Mahoney.
Or Treliving and co gets the axe and Lombardi becomes the new GM.
^ Tre's current deal apparently gives him the authority the POHO would have. So they wouldn't be hiring for that position while he is under contract. Scenario 2 I could see. He's still very close with Sutter and the two of them did win together in L.A.
Ah didn’t know that. I guess they could demote him but he would just leave I guess.
What looked to be the next Kane/Toewes (a first line)
1st pairing top D
No Goalie.
Cap Space
If he leaves today, the new GM will have:
Maybe 1 first line player (Lindholm)
No top pairing D
Decent G
No cap space
Needless to say it's been an abject failure
This is a bit disingenuous for sure. I don't think the team is in a worse position than when he took over, the problem is the team is not in much better of a position and it feels like the 7 years were wasted
Looking at key pieces from the 14-15 team to now on the roster from when Brad took over.
Overall it's actually pretty close. Issue is we all hoped we'd be further along at this point.
Real problem this year has been a couple of players taking huge steps back (Tkachuk, Monahan, Gaudreau, Gio, specifically), and some players not taking the next step we hoped they would (Valimaki, Dube, Andersson). Really the team needs to be making tough decisions on Monahan, Gaudreau, Gio, and Backlund this offseason. Need to move them for younger pieces / pieces that are longer term. Then retool around Tkachuk, Lindholm, Mangiapane, Hanifin, Andersson, Valimaki, Markstrom.
Last edited by SuperMatt18; 04-20-2021 at 10:09 AM.
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What looked to be the next Kane/Toewes (a first line)
1st pairing top D
No Goalie.
Cap Space
If he leaves today, the new GM will have:
Maybe 1 first line player (Lindholm)
No top pairing D
Decent G
No cap space
Needless to say it's been an abject failure. I equate hockey to sales - you have your pipe/funnel build (prospects), then you work on closing (winning) which can hurt your pipeline build, but that's OK because you are closing business. Then once business is closed you have to focus on pipe build again.
Treliving went from pipe build to closing, but he didn't close anything. Now we have zero closed business (wins) and no pipeline. In my world he would be on a performance plan, and would likely resign as he would see there is no way he could turn it around before getting his ass fired.
It's funny that you seem to credit Feaster for giving Treliving "Toews and Kane" but ignore the fact he either still has them or they actually weren't Toews and Kane.
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The team wouldn't do so bad if Dube, Ryan, Ritchie, Leivo, and Nordstrom could actually show some consistently good hockey instead of being all over the ice like timbits hockey.
Our top 5 in Tkachuk, Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm and Backlund is at least serviceable. The other guys? Not able to make anything happen on the ice.
This is the worse bottom 6 I've ever seen the flames ice. And a pretty bland top 6 to boot.
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Your best and top paid players being “serviceable “ DOES NOT CUT IT in the NHL.
They have to play better than the other teams best players, if the team is expected to win the game.
That has happened very infrequently over the last 2 seasons.
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Darryl Sutter is not the elephant in the room. He is highly accomplished with a track record for success. Can't say that about his players. Why in the world are we even talking about the coach at this point?
I think he is. Is he Brad's guy or the owners guy? Is this roster a good fit for Sutter hockey? I don't think so but I keep hearing he didn't take the job to man a rebuild so I'm not exactly sure what the plan is seeing the team is going to be worse after trading away Gaudreau and whomever else they move on from in the offseason. Is the plan for Sutter to coach a low talent group of grinders in hopes of scraping by into the last playoff spot in a league that favors speed and skill today? Not bad enough to be able to draft the elite talent the organization desperately needs but not good enough to ever be a cup contender has been this organization's trademark over the decades and it's led us to perpetual failure and mediocrity yet that seems to be the path taken once again.
Based on the decline of key players and the high probability of icing a less talented roster next season, the logical direction is to head down the road of a rebuild but supposedly the coach didn't accept the job for that so I guess I just don't understand what's going on with this organization as it's like they are just making things up as they go rather than follow any plan.
Last edited by Erick Estrada; 04-20-2021 at 10:34 AM.
