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View Poll Results: What role do humans play in contributing to climate change?
Humans are the primary contributor to climate change 396 62.86%
Humans contribute to climate change, but not the main cause 165 26.19%
Not sure 37 5.87%
Climate change is a hoax 32 5.08%
Voters: 630. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-10-2020, 08:09 AM   #2121
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Good news everyone, we can eat beef AND save the planet.


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Conventional thinking says that cows are bad for climate change. After all, livestock contribute to around 14% of all global emissions. Researchers at UC Davis estimate that a single cow can belch around 220 pounds -- roughly 100 kilograms -- of methane each year. There are more than a billion cows on the planet, so that is a lot of (greenhouse) gas. But cows didn't evolve to sit in feedlots getting fat. Their wild relatives were out in the grassland in large numbers...

Researchers at Texas A&M University led by Professor Richard Teague found that even moderately effective grazing systems put more carbon in the soil than the gasses cattle emit. Around 30% to 40% of the earth's surface is natural grassland, and Teague says the potential for food security is immense... The key to climate-sustainable agriculture is the soil, because soil has an extraordinary ability to store carbon. There is more than three times as much carbon in the world's soils than in the atmosphere, and scientists say that with better management, agricultural soils could absorb much more carbon in the future.

Even a change of a few percentage points would make a huge difference to the battle against the climate crisis. There is an upper limit to how much carbon soils can carry, but it can take decades to get to that point. Plants absorb carbon from the atmosphere through photosynthesis, and then put it in the soil through their roots. More carbon is stored in the ground through organic matter and microorganisms.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/06/a...ntl/index.html
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Old 03-10-2020, 09:23 AM   #2122
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Good news everyone, we can eat beef AND save the planet.
Excellent, now that we cannot afford it anymore.
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Old 03-10-2020, 11:14 PM   #2123
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Good news everyone, we can eat beef AND save the planet.





https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/06/a...ntl/index.html
I'm somewhat skeptical, because I really want this to be true.

I've always thought the narrative that meat based diets were bad for the environment, seemed a little overly anthroposentric, and missing allot of factors about the nitrogen cycle, and arable crop land vs ranching land.

But even if true, it leaves us with the problem of just how much meat can be produced in a world of 8 to 9 billion.
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Old 08-06-2020, 07:41 PM   #2124
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Honestly shocked these two announcements have not been posted. Absolutely massive for Alberta on two different fronts.

First, world's biggest MDF plant being built in Stettler, Alberta.

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The Stettler region will soon be home to a new multi-million-dollar business.

Councils from the Town of Stettler, the County of Stettler and representatives from the company made the announcement during a joint meeting on July 15th.

The business in question coming to the region is Great Plains MDF Production Inc. which will be building a $750 million straw fibre MDF board plant on a half-section of land near the airport.

According to the press release, the plant will be, “An ideally situated half section adjacent to rail, roads, power and water supply.”

When operational, the plant will feature a “1,000,000 square foot main factory which will house 70m and 40m continuous press lines.”

Touted as the world’s largest Medium-Density-Fibre-Board (MDF) plant once completed, the facility will produce 500 million sq. ft. of ¾” product per year.
https://www.stettlerindependent.com/...duction-plant/

This is absolutely massive. Not only will it stop the carbon emissions being created by burning straw at the end of harvest, but it actually takes the straw and uses it to actively store carbon. And with the size of this plant, the amount of carbon being stored is going to be bonkers. There are smaller plants in Canada that create similar products that store up to 1 million tonnes of carbon emissions per year, which is more or less the equivalent of C02 absorption of a forest the size of Banff National Park.

PER YEAR. This would turn Alberta into a world leader for MDF and MDF related products, which I should remind everyone is a market that is MASSIVELY growing. And this plant should do that by utilizing a more renewable resource that what is traditionally used to manufacture MDF.

Seriously, crazy. Really, really surprised this isn't getting massive headlines. Just a massive win for Alberta.

Secondly, Tesla Megapacks being installed alongside the Summerview Wind Farm near Pincher Creek, Alberta.

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TransAlta's WindCharger will be the first lithium-ion, utility-scale battery storage project in Alberta. It will utilize Tesla's Megapack battery technology, charged with electricity from Summerview Wind Farm.

Tesla is deploying its Megapack tech in the new WindCharger project in Canada, TransAlta announced via its Twitter account in early June 2020. Now TransAlta is ready to turn on the power at Alberta's first large-scale battery storage project, using technology from Tesla. If the technology works on a wider scale, it could be a “tipping point” in the power industry. Alberta’s largest electricity generator said it has huge potential and the project is “really cool,” according to Vancouver Sun.

Later this month, Calgary-based TransAlta will flip on the switch at Alberta's first utility-scale, lithium-ion battery storage facility, known as the WindCharger project. The development, northeast of Pincher Creek, will be able to store electricity from the company’s nearby Summerview wind farm and then discharge it when needed.

The project, costing about $16 million to build, consists of three Tesla lithium-ion battery storage groupings, capable of distributing 10 megawatts (MW) for up to two hours, providing up to 20 MWh of storage capacity.
https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesm...tion-in-canada

Another big, big deal for Alberta. With some big solar plants being constructed in Vulcan and the Edmonton airport, along with some other big ones already operating, PLUS the wind power already scattered throughout the province, this could be massive. Staggeringly massive.

The entire energy landscape in Alberta could be changing in less than a year if this works.

Great to see. Didn't want to post it in this thread, because some people will not see it. Seriously, massive news.
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Old 08-06-2020, 08:31 PM   #2125
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^^Thanks for this information, really it’s nice to see that Alberta is still the most productive province. Furthermore without any help from the federal government.
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Old 08-07-2020, 11:06 AM   #2126
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The Tesla Megapacks is the sexy announcement, but the MDF plant is seriously incredible for Alberta and Canada as a whole.

Canada is already the world leader in sheet goods for the woodworking industry, and this puts us even more on top. We are talking about a multi billion dollar industry growing expontentially.

And the jobs will be good paying jobs as well.
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Old 10-06-2020, 08:20 AM   #2127
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Another battery storage install in Alberta. All private funding.

There is something here guys. Everyone has been yelling and screaming that Alberta needs to start shifting to green energy. We are starting to see it. Now imagine if there were some government subsidies available.

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A subsidiary of Toronto Dominion (TD) Bank will be installing Tesla Megapacks in northern Alberta, which when complete will make it the largest installation of its kind in Canada.

The project, dubbed eReserve and launched by WCSB Power Holdings, will see three 20MW Megapack batteries installed at three different locations. The extra energy stored in the batteries will be used to help balance the grid in the province as more renewable electricity projects come online.

One location in Raycroft, about 68km north of Grand Prairie, is already under construction and expected to be online in December. Two other Megapacks will be built in Grand Prairie and Buffalo Creek, also in northern Alberta. Plans call for both to be operational by mid-2021.

The total cost of the project was not disclosed, but it will not receive any government subsidies. Jeff Mouland, managing director and head of infrastructure at TD told The Globe and Mail even without the funding they still expect to see a good return on their investment.
https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/tes...erta-ereserve/
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Old 10-06-2020, 08:26 AM   #2128
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"they still expect to see a good return on their investment."

I assume they expect grid stability due to renewables to be an issue in the future, and can make lots of money dealing with it. I also assume for them to make good money, we will all end up paying for it on our end.

I still don't see how this helps when renewables are down for significant periods of time. We will still require reliable generation capacity to deal with that, so between natural gas, wind/solar and batteries, you are tripling the capacity built in megawatts. This will in no way be cheaper for consumers. Just because the business case makes sense, doesn't mean it is good for us.

Last edited by Fuzz; 10-06-2020 at 08:49 AM.
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Old 10-06-2020, 08:30 AM   #2129
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Alberta has as substantial wind/solar base already.

From what I understand is these megapacks will be placed to help increase the efficiency of those plants. But yes, it remains to be seen what the long-term affect will be.
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Old 08-09-2021, 08:03 AM   #2130
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We’re likely ####ed. I don’t see us making the necessary changes in time. Electric vehicles are far from being feasible for most people and the newest models are too sporty and huge to be properly efficient. Coal is still a huge source of power in some countries and even though natural gas is much better, sadly it needs to go too.

Our consumption habits aren’t changing. If anything we’re consuming more with stores like Amazon making it quick and easy to get crap right to your doorstep. Plant-based meat alternatives and “lab-grown” versions are novelties at best.

The goalposts for climate deniers have moved from “hoax” to “too disruptive” and finally they’re right. We’re at a point where making the necessary changes would require entire industries to go bankrupt and force us to make quality of life choices we would never accept. So yeah, we’re probably ####ed.

https://www.reuters.com/business/env...ns-2021-08-09/
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Old 08-09-2021, 08:13 AM   #2131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzz View Post
Good news everyone, we can eat beef AND save the planet.





https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/06/a...ntl/index.html
I always assumed that the inputs such as transport and fertilizer emissions were the only things to worry about. The flatulence emissions story always seemed fishy. If a free range cow on natural gas lands is eating grass, it seems logical that this cow would be carbon neutral. By eating grass a portion of the grass and their feces is going to be burried in the ground. The flatulence they are creating is coming from grass which is absorbing carbon as it grows. The carbon inputs here are coming from the farming inputs, not the animals themselves.

Just measuring a cows farts for carbon output anyways seemed ridiculous.

If you're buying beef from a factory farm in new Zealand, it's obviously an entirely different matter.
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Old 08-09-2021, 08:14 AM   #2132
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Maybe they should do another report. That'll help.
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Old 08-09-2021, 08:37 AM   #2133
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Just measuring a cows farts for carbon output anyways seemed ridiculous.
I thought cow fart concerns were because of methane. Methane is a much more potent greenhouse gas (although with a shorter half life in the atmosphere than CO2).
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Old 08-09-2021, 08:47 AM   #2134
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I thought cow fart concerns were because of methane. Methane is a much more potent greenhouse gas (although with a shorter half life in the atmosphere than CO2).
All organic material creates methane as it dies and rots. Also methane gas a relatively short half life of under ten years. Agriculture only accounts for about 5% of methane release, and the includes other inputs, such as fertilizers, transport, etc...

I'm not disputing that beef has some effect, but just think previous calculations I'd seen seemed way to simplistic. If the option is eating free range beef raised locally or imported soy products grown on factory farms, the choice isn't as simple as beef is always worse because cows fart a lot.
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Old 08-09-2021, 08:56 AM   #2135
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The thing with methane and agriculture is it's basically a steady state if herd sizes stay the same. Because methane doesn't last that long, the cycle is now stable(and number of cattle are not in creasing in NA). It's not like burning oil, where you take locked up carbon and keep releasing it. So I think there is a bit of exaggeration as to how bad farmed animals are.
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Old 08-09-2021, 09:07 AM   #2136
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Originally Posted by DownInFlames View Post
We’re likely ####ed. I don’t see us making the necessary changes in time. Electric vehicles are far from being feasible for most people and the newest models are too sporty and huge to be properly efficient. Coal is still a huge source of power in some countries and even though natural gas is much better, sadly it needs to go too.

Our consumption habits aren’t changing. If anything we’re consuming more with stores like Amazon making it quick and easy to get crap right to your doorstep. Plant-based meat alternatives and “lab-grown” versions are novelties at best.

The goalposts for climate deniers have moved from “hoax” to “too disruptive” and finally they’re right. We’re at a point where making the necessary changes would require entire industries to go bankrupt and force us to make quality of life choices we would never accept. So yeah, we’re probably ####ed.

https://www.reuters.com/business/env...ns-2021-08-09/
In time for what? I'll never understand why humans are so fixated on doomsday. We have been imagining the end of the world since we inherited it.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opin...ticle38062215/
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Old 08-09-2021, 09:13 AM   #2137
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I thought the problem with cows was when they were grain/corn fed which is not their natural feed and causes them to emit excess methane.

The big methane problem is permafrost melting and releasing massive quantities of it. While that methane will have a relatively short half life it will help accelerate the melting to generate more methane. That’s not a steady-state scenario like cows (if in fact they are steady-state)
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Old 08-09-2021, 09:30 AM   #2138
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In time for what? I'll never understand why humans are so fixated on doomsday. We have been imagining the end of the world since we inherited it.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opin...ticle38062215/
Read the article to answer your question. There’s a difference between fixating on what “could be” and trying to get people to understand what “will be”. Nuclear Holocaust could happen but likely won’t as long as superpowers have MAD as a deterrent. Y2K was going to happen if efforts weren't made to fix the errant code. Climate change will cause catastrophic events word-wide if we don’t take action now.

It’s not good to always fixate on negative possible outcomes but when something this huge is still preventable it’s ok to shout about it from the rooftops.
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Old 08-09-2021, 09:31 AM   #2139
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In time for what? I'll never understand why humans are so fixated on doomsday. We have been imagining the end of the world since we inherited it.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opin...ticle38062215/

In time to avoid or reverse the well-documented predicted effects of climate change including mass population dislocation, crop failure, etc. Ironically the article you quoted listed climate change as one of the few real threats we should be serious about addressing.
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Old 08-09-2021, 10:25 AM   #2140
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In time to avoid or reverse the well-documented predicted effects of climate change including mass population dislocation, crop failure, etc. Ironically the article you quoted listed climate change as one of the few real threats we should be serious about addressing.
Yes but the word “threat” does not equate to impending doom. We are on this planet for a short time. Live responsibly and enjoy it.
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