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Old 05-23-2020, 09:46 AM   #1
Eric Vail
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Flames Flames young goalies who didn't pan out

The Flames have done a lot of things well over the years, but finding and developing goalies has not been one of them.

Here is a list of young goalies that did not pan out for the Calgary Flames (bold indicates first round draft pick):

Tim Bernhardt
Marc D'Amour
Doug Dadswell
Rick Kosti
Andrei Trefilov
Jason Muzzatti
Dwayne Roloson
Tyler Moss
Jean Sebastian Giguere
Tyrone Gartner
Dany Sabourin
Levente Szuper
Craig Anderson
Brent Krahn
Matt Keetley
Henrik Karlsson
Leland Irving
Reto Berra
Joni Ortio
John Gillies

Goalies who did pan out:
Pat Riggin*
Reggie Lemelin*
Mike Vernon
Trevor Kidd
David Rittich

*acquisition and rookie years in Atlanta

I left Kiprusoff off the list because he was drafted in San Jose and played 42 NHL games for them over the two years before the Flames acquired him. He was an NHL goalie when we got him - though not a star.

So really, if you are looking at the list, considering just the time in Calgary (leaving off Riggin and Lemelin), the Flames are batting 3/23 or 13%. We've had just as many young goalies who we've given up on who make it elsewhere (Gigeure, Roloson, Anderson).

If I were a young goalie, I wouldn't want to be drafted by the Flames.

Last edited by Eric Vail; 05-23-2020 at 11:44 AM.
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Old 05-23-2020, 10:01 AM   #2
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All things considered, Giguere had a great career and Anderson and Roloson had really good careers.
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Old 05-23-2020, 10:22 AM   #3
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I think you'd have to look at rounds and draft position, and then other teams to get an idea of success rates.

Mind if I tackle that? I need an article project!

My gut says the numbers will suggest the teams that don't waste top two round picks on goaltenders are better off than teams that expend top 60 picks every other year on voodoo goaltending.
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Old 05-23-2020, 10:23 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geeoff View Post
All things considered, Giguere had a great career and Anderson and Roloson had really good careers.
They had to leave Calgary to have success. As far as the Flames go, they wasted their time on their acquisition cost and development time.
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Old 05-23-2020, 10:24 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo View Post
I think you'd have to look at rounds and draft position, and then other teams to get an idea of success rates.

Mind if I tackle that? I need an article project!

My gut says the numbers will suggest the teams that don't waste top two round picks on goaltenders are better off than teams that expend top 60 picks every other year on voodoo goaltending.
I look forward to reading the results.
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Old 05-23-2020, 11:26 AM   #6
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Joey MacDonald was at the end of his career here. And if you don't count Kipper because he played NHL games, why count Ramo who played more games for Tampa?

Last edited by CMPunk; 05-23-2020 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 05-23-2020, 11:30 AM   #7
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I'm also curious to see what other teams' numbers look like.

It seems to me that the all-or-nothing nature of the position means that every team is going to have a lot more misses than hits. I wonder if there are really any teams that are consistently good at developing goalies, or if it's all just random luck and the player's determination that matters more than the team?
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Old 05-23-2020, 11:43 AM   #8
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Quote:
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Joey MacDonald was at the end of his career here. And if you don't count Kipper because he played NHL games, why count Ramo who played more games for Tampa?
Good points.

I'll take Ramo and MacDonald out.
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Old 05-23-2020, 11:46 AM   #9
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This is a list that has been put together to make the Flames development system look worse than what it truly is. Just look at the ages of some of the players listed when they first arrived to the Flames organization Karlsson (26), MacDonald (32), Berra (26), and Ramo (27). After that if you are going back 30+ years in order to find draft busts you are going to find them in every organization.

https://canucksarmy.com/2019/08/11/a...d-goaltenders/



Goaltending is a boom or bust type of position with a realistic maximum of 2 on each team per year and then if there is an elite goaltender it becomes near impossible for a player to dethrone them because the skillset is so rare - yet as anyone will tell you very valuable.
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Old 05-23-2020, 11:47 AM   #10
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Man, I had high hopes for Trefilov and Muzatti

Was hoping for great careers from Krahn and Irving too

That’s three first round picks that were wasted.
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Old 05-23-2020, 12:19 PM   #11
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A lot of the Flames' goaltending prospects look great in the CHL or NCAA, but then fall flat in the AHL/NHL - often because of injuries.

The Flames used to have problems with patience (see Giguere, Roloson, Anderson, McElhinney), but now it seems to be more of a general development thing.

I don't think drafting has been the problem (other than highly questionable picks like Mason McDonald).
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Old 05-23-2020, 12:20 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Vail View Post
They had to leave Calgary to have success. As far as the Flames go, they wasted their time on their acquisition cost and development time.
I wouldn't say they were "wasted time and cost". It could be argued the Flames didn't put enough time or resources into those players.
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Old 05-23-2020, 12:47 PM   #13
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Throw Mcbackup and Parsons. They both belong As busts in Calgary at least.
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Old 05-23-2020, 12:49 PM   #14
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I'm still waiting for Andrei Medvedev to come over from Russia.
Anyone with any updates on his progress?
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Old 05-23-2020, 12:49 PM   #15
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Quote:
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Throw Mcbackup and Parsons. They both belong As busts in Calgary at least.
?

Guy is 22. Parsons still has a chance. All goalies in the organization do.
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Old 05-23-2020, 01:16 PM   #16
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Quote:
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?

Guy is 22. Parsons still has a chance. All goalies in the organization do.
Agree on Parsons, though I think Gillies is almost at the end of the rope as a Flames goalie
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Old 05-23-2020, 01:47 PM   #17
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I had high hopes for Gillies, but it doesn't look like it's going to work out for him here in Calgary. The best thing for his career might be a new start elsewhere.
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Old 05-23-2020, 01:54 PM   #18
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Roloson, Anderson, Giguere, and Kidd is a pretty impressive haul for a 10 year period.
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Old 05-23-2020, 02:01 PM   #19
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Kevin Lalande
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Old 05-23-2020, 02:19 PM   #20
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So, all of them?
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