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Old 04-30-2021, 10:41 AM   #1641
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Frankly I was commenting more on how people react to a goal depending on their own bias.

“What a snipe” versus “The goalie has to have that”.

That’s a long standing thing.

I have had a lot of people tell me (quite wrongly) what my opinions are of goalies based on discussing how goals go in, and what reasonably ‘should’ be stopped
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Old 04-30-2021, 10:42 AM   #1642
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Here's what matters to me:
8 GP: 5G, 6A = 11 points

+11, 1.38 PPG, 18:27 avg Ice time

That's not even getting into the corsi stuff...
I never got into the Bennett arguments. I found him a frustrating and inconsistent player and questioned whether he merited better opportunities although I definitely thought they handled him poorly to start this season after his performance in the playoffs. But I was happy enough with the return we got when we traded him.

However, even acknowledging it's only 8 games in, his performance and usage on a better offensive team having a way better season with a deeper group of forwards makes the Flames handling of Bennett look totally incompetent.
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Old 04-30-2021, 10:42 AM   #1643
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5v5 for the 8 game stretch Bennett has been on Florida...

CF%: 65.22 (2nd on team)
SF%: 63.48 (4th on team)
GF%: 100.00 (1st on team)
xGF%: 73.25 (1st on team)
SCF%: 69.23 (2nd on team)
HDCF%: 74.29 (1st on team)
HDGF%: 100.00 (1st on team)

He isn't even being "lucky". He's freaking dominating when he's on the ice.
If he is truly this dominant long term, then this is just more proof this was all a Bennett thing.

If he had another gear, as he showed in the Playoffs and NEVER in the regular season, then the failure of Sam Bennett is on Sam Bennett.
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Old 04-30-2021, 10:46 AM   #1644
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Why does it have to be one extreme or the other?

Flames got good value for a guy that couldn't find the next gear here. He then moved on and has been playing well since. Why can't we be happy for the return and also happy for Bennett's stretch of good play? The "I told ya so's" being countered by the people that need to bash Bennett all the way out is just so obnoxious.
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Old 04-30-2021, 10:48 AM   #1645
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Depends on how the two second rounders turn out.

lol. I guess

But the fact is , they turned a 4th OA in to that Heineman (nowhere close to being Florida’s best prospect) plus another 2nd

Like I said, if Tre had a 4th overall, Bettman steps to the podium, and says “we have a trade to announce. The Calgary Flames trade the 4th overall pick in the draft for two second rounders, one in the 2025 draft and one in 2026”, well, I don’t think that goes over well
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Old 04-30-2021, 10:51 AM   #1646
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Wonder if Darryl was consulted on the Bennett trade.
Does it even matter? When you got a chance to get a player out of your system and got something back in return, you do it. Bennett never worked out for the Flames - so be it. If he works out for another team - who cares. As long as the Flames got a good deal back and it works out for everyone, that's the best trade that could've happened. For the longest time, no GM was going to offer much and Bennett would've been a lost cause with absolutely no returns - not even a bag of pucks. So, a second round pick next year and a prospect - hell ya! Glad he's doing well in Florida, but wait to see if he can continue like this thru non-Pandemic times. It's been a weird season and a weird year during tough times.
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Old 04-30-2021, 10:54 AM   #1647
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Why does it have to be one extreme or the other?

Flames got good value for a guy that couldn't find the next gear here. He then moved on and has been playing well since. Why can't we be happy for the return and also happy for Bennett's stretch of good play? The "I told ya so's" being countered by the people that need to bash Bennett all the way out is just so obnoxious.

Your plea for something not ‘one extreme or the other’, whatever that means, is supported by the strategy to throw in an ‘obnoxious’ bomb

Can I guess your occupation? Hostage negotiator?

Haha
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Old 04-30-2021, 10:56 AM   #1648
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Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache View Post
lol. I guess

But the fact is , they turned a 4th OA in to that Heineman (nowhere close to being Florida’s best prospect) plus another 2nd

Like I said, if Tre had a 4th overall, Bettman steps to the podium, and says “we have a trade to announce. The Calgary Flames trade the 4th overall pick in the draft for two second rounders, one in the 2025 draft and one in 2026”, well, I don’t think that goes over well
Just wait until the summer, when Brad trades the 104th pick from 2011 for two 1sts.
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Old 04-30-2021, 10:57 AM   #1649
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Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache View Post
Your plea for something not ‘one extreme or the other’, whatever that means, is supported by the strategy to throw in an ‘obnoxious’ bomb

Can I guess your occupation? Hostage negotiator?

Haha
He said, as if to prove my point
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Old 04-30-2021, 11:02 AM   #1650
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Why does it have to be one extreme or the other?

Flames got good value for a guy that couldn't find the next gear here. He then moved on and has been playing well since. Why can't we be happy for the return and also happy for Bennett's stretch of good play? The "I told ya so's" being countered by the people that need to bash Bennett all the way out is just so obnoxious.
I think what gets forgotten is that Bennett asked for a trade.

If you consider the trade request and expansion draft, the trade is easier to swallow.
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Old 04-30-2021, 11:03 AM   #1651
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If he is truly this dominant long term, then this is just more proof this was all a Bennett thing.

If he had another gear, as he showed in the Playoffs and NEVER in the regular season, then the failure of Sam Bennett is on Sam Bennett.
False.

We constantly asked Bennett to play on the wing of poor transition centers like Mark Jankowski and Sean Monahan. Wingers can't control the game the same way centers can so we put him at an inherent disadvantage relative to his strengths.

In the rare occasions he was a center we constantly threw Bennett out there with horrid shot generation wingers.Guys like Troy Brouwer, Curtis Lazar, Alex Chiasson, even Dillon Dube has some unspectacular metrics. The list was vast. Meanwhile we gave Monahan and Backlund our elite possession wingers, guys like Elias Lindholm, Matthew Tkachuk, Andrew Mangiapane, and John Gaudreau.

Bennett did the best that he could here with what he was given. That the Flames coaching staff didn't give him much is not on him.
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Old 04-30-2021, 11:03 AM   #1652
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Dillon Dube and Andrew Mangiapane have done more with less in their time and development with the Flames. They are better players and werent gifted with the benefit of the doubt and chances a 4th over all pick does.

The only issue Sam Bennett had was Sam Bennett.

Everyone just needs to get over it.
It’s funny that you mention Dube because there is a very good case to be made that the Flames are once again converting a potential impact centre into a bottom six grinding winger.

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Originally Posted by Wastedyouth View Post
If he is truly this dominant long term, then this is just more proof this was all a Bennett thing.

If he had another gear, as he showed in the Playoffs and NEVER in the regular season, then the failure of Sam Bennett is on Sam Bennett.
You don’t think Bennett not showing another gear in the regular season has anything to do with him being our best centre in the playoffs and getting rewarded by playing fourth line wing? His getting more than 18 mins of ice time 4 times in 400 games here? Ah, I see the light, you’re right. Flames are a model organization for developing stud centres, just look at our track record and all our success.
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Old 04-30-2021, 11:06 AM   #1653
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Just wait until the summer, when Brad trades the 104th pick from 2011 for two 1sts.

Fair, but this is about unrealized value. He did get a good amount of on ice value for that pick
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Old 04-30-2021, 11:08 AM   #1654
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No one “gave” Monahan and Backlund “elite possession wingers”. They earned them. And when they were played with them, it worked. It’s not hard to figure out. Coaches stick with success.

Half of the Bennett defenders were irate he wasn’t put at centre by Hartley. Half of them were mad he wasn’t put on the wing with Monahan and Gaudreau.

They tried to grow Bennett with another first rounder, Jankowski. That’s not an abnormal call. They tried him as well with some guys who’d scored in the past. Brouwer, Neal, Jagr, Lucic. What he didn’t get was minutes. That’s probably a bigger argument about his development IMO.
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Old 04-30-2021, 11:09 AM   #1655
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He said, as if to prove my point

Hey, if you don’t like discussing the Sam Bennett trade, this is the wrong thread

You can always check out literally any other thread on CP
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Old 04-30-2021, 11:11 AM   #1656
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Just wait until the summer, when Brad trades the 104th pick from 2011 for two 1sts.
Yep, values change

Oilers turned 2 first overalls into Adam Larsson by this logic.

It's not like teams were knocking down the door for Bennett and offering firsts. Anyone could have had him for this price.
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Old 04-30-2021, 11:12 AM   #1657
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Originally Posted by FBI View Post
Here's what matters to me:
8 GP: 5G, 6A = 11 points

+11, 1.38 PPG, 18:27 avg Ice time

That's not even getting into the corsi stuff...
The bolded should be what matters to everybody. I'm happy for Bennett, he was a warrior on a team that suffers from GAF deficiency. His compete is what Calgary needs more of. But do not look past a bump with a new team in such a small sample size.

Jakub Vrana scored 4 goals the other night for the wings.

Anthony Mantha's scored a goal in each of his first 4 games with the Caps.

Nick Foligno has 3 assists in his 3 Leaf games.

These players weren't producing even close to this clip prior to their trades.

Last edited by DomeFoam; 04-30-2021 at 11:16 AM.
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Old 04-30-2021, 11:14 AM   #1658
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Hey, if you don’t like discussing the Sam Bennett trade, this is the wrong thread

You can always check out literally any other thread on CP
Yeah, that's exactly what I was saying, absolutely. Read that over again and find where I said that.

'Nobody discuss Sam Bennett!'

lol
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Old 04-30-2021, 11:18 AM   #1659
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Yeah, that's exactly what I was saying, absolutely. Read that over again and find where I said that.

'Nobody discuss Sam Bennett!'

lol

Huh? Speaking of reading things over, take your own advice

I said if you didn’t ‘like’ those discussions (and you did characterize them as obnoxious), there are other threads
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Old 04-30-2021, 11:19 AM   #1660
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No one “gave” Monahan and Backlund “elite possession wingers”. They earned them. And when they were played with them, it worked. It’s not hard to figure out. Coaches stick with success.

Half of the Bennett defenders were irate he wasn’t put at centre by Hartley. Half of them were mad he wasn’t put on the wing with Monahan and Gaudreau.

They tried to grow Bennett with another first rounder, Jankowski. That’s not an abnormal call. They tried him as well with some guys who’d scored in the past. Brouwer, Neal, Jagr, Lucic. What he didn’t get was minutes. That’s probably a bigger argument about his development IMO.
Did Bennett ‘earn’ time with Huberdeau? Quenneville, one of the best coaches of the past few decades, put him there without ever having him on his team. Why didn’t Q put Bennett with Lomberg and make him earn his way up?

As for the bolded, it’s a massive indictment on the Flames that they did not recognize what kinds of players Jankowski and Bennett are and tried to groom Bennett on the wing of a fourth liner. And I feel like I don’t really have to say much about the wingers that ‘scored before,’ if you don’t think that putting him with Brouwer and Neal were detrimental to his development I’m not sure what else there is to say. Btw it’s also a huge indictment on BT that those were the best wingers he could summon with his 5 mil AAV contracts
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