04-30-2021, 10:41 AM
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#1641
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM
Frankly I was commenting more on how people react to a goal depending on their own bias.
“What a snipe” versus “The goalie has to have that”.
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That’s a long standing thing.
I have had a lot of people tell me (quite wrongly) what my opinions are of goalies based on discussing how goals go in, and what reasonably ‘should’ be stopped
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04-30-2021, 10:42 AM
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#1642
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FBI
Here's what matters to me:
8 GP: 5G, 6A = 11 points
+11, 1.38 PPG, 18:27 avg Ice time
That's not even getting into the corsi stuff...
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I never got into the Bennett arguments. I found him a frustrating and inconsistent player and questioned whether he merited better opportunities although I definitely thought they handled him poorly to start this season after his performance in the playoffs. But I was happy enough with the return we got when we traded him.
However, even acknowledging it's only 8 games in, his performance and usage on a better offensive team having a way better season with a deeper group of forwards makes the Flames handling of Bennett look totally incompetent.
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04-30-2021, 10:42 AM
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#1643
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Truculent!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ComixZone
5v5 for the 8 game stretch Bennett has been on Florida...
CF%: 65.22 (2nd on team)
SF%: 63.48 (4th on team)
GF%: 100.00 (1st on team)
xGF%: 73.25 (1st on team)
SCF%: 69.23 (2nd on team)
HDCF%: 74.29 (1st on team)
HDGF%: 100.00 (1st on team)
He isn't even being "lucky". He's freaking dominating when he's on the ice.
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If he is truly this dominant long term, then this is just more proof this was all a Bennett thing.
If he had another gear, as he showed in the Playoffs and NEVER in the regular season, then the failure of Sam Bennett is on Sam Bennett.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poe969
It's the Law of E=NG. If there was an Edmonton on Mars, it would stink like Uranus.
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04-30-2021, 10:46 AM
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#1644
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SW Calgary
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Why does it have to be one extreme or the other?
Flames got good value for a guy that couldn't find the next gear here. He then moved on and has been playing well since. Why can't we be happy for the return and also happy for Bennett's stretch of good play? The "I told ya so's" being countered by the people that need to bash Bennett all the way out is just so obnoxious.
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04-30-2021, 10:48 AM
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#1645
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan403
Depends on how the two second rounders turn out.
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lol. I guess
But the fact is , they turned a 4th OA in to that Heineman (nowhere close to being Florida’s best prospect) plus another 2nd
Like I said, if Tre had a 4th overall, Bettman steps to the podium, and says “we have a trade to announce. The Calgary Flames trade the 4th overall pick in the draft for two second rounders, one in the 2025 draft and one in 2026”, well, I don’t think that goes over well
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04-30-2021, 10:51 AM
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#1646
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manhattanboy
Wonder if Darryl was consulted on the Bennett trade.
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Does it even matter? When you got a chance to get a player out of your system and got something back in return, you do it. Bennett never worked out for the Flames - so be it. If he works out for another team - who cares. As long as the Flames got a good deal back and it works out for everyone, that's the best trade that could've happened. For the longest time, no GM was going to offer much and Bennett would've been a lost cause with absolutely no returns - not even a bag of pucks. So, a second round pick next year and a prospect - hell ya! Glad he's doing well in Florida, but wait to see if he can continue like this thru non-Pandemic times. It's been a weird season and a weird year during tough times.
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04-30-2021, 10:54 AM
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#1647
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btimbit
Why does it have to be one extreme or the other?
Flames got good value for a guy that couldn't find the next gear here. He then moved on and has been playing well since. Why can't we be happy for the return and also happy for Bennett's stretch of good play? The "I told ya so's" being countered by the people that need to bash Bennett all the way out is just so obnoxious.
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Your plea for something not ‘one extreme or the other’, whatever that means, is supported by the strategy to throw in an ‘obnoxious’ bomb
Can I guess your occupation? Hostage negotiator?
Haha
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04-30-2021, 10:56 AM
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#1648
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First round-bust
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: speculating about AHL players
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache
lol. I guess
But the fact is , they turned a 4th OA in to that Heineman (nowhere close to being Florida’s best prospect) plus another 2nd
Like I said, if Tre had a 4th overall, Bettman steps to the podium, and says “we have a trade to announce. The Calgary Flames trade the 4th overall pick in the draft for two second rounders, one in the 2025 draft and one in 2026”, well, I don’t think that goes over well
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Just wait until the summer, when Brad trades the 104th pick from 2011 for two 1sts.
__________________
"This has been TheScorpion's shtick for years. All these hot takes, clickbait nonsense just to feed his social media algorithms." –Tuco
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04-30-2021, 10:57 AM
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#1649
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SW Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache
Your plea for something not ‘one extreme or the other’, whatever that means, is supported by the strategy to throw in an ‘obnoxious’ bomb
Can I guess your occupation? Hostage negotiator?
Haha
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He said, as if to prove my point
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04-30-2021, 11:02 AM
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#1650
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btimbit
Why does it have to be one extreme or the other?
Flames got good value for a guy that couldn't find the next gear here. He then moved on and has been playing well since. Why can't we be happy for the return and also happy for Bennett's stretch of good play? The "I told ya so's" being countered by the people that need to bash Bennett all the way out is just so obnoxious.
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I think what gets forgotten is that Bennett asked for a trade.
If you consider the trade request and expansion draft, the trade is easier to swallow.
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04-30-2021, 11:03 AM
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#1651
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wastedyouth
If he is truly this dominant long term, then this is just more proof this was all a Bennett thing.
If he had another gear, as he showed in the Playoffs and NEVER in the regular season, then the failure of Sam Bennett is on Sam Bennett.
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False.
We constantly asked Bennett to play on the wing of poor transition centers like Mark Jankowski and Sean Monahan. Wingers can't control the game the same way centers can so we put him at an inherent disadvantage relative to his strengths.
In the rare occasions he was a center we constantly threw Bennett out there with horrid shot generation wingers.Guys like Troy Brouwer, Curtis Lazar, Alex Chiasson, even Dillon Dube has some unspectacular metrics. The list was vast. Meanwhile we gave Monahan and Backlund our elite possession wingers, guys like Elias Lindholm, Matthew Tkachuk, Andrew Mangiapane, and John Gaudreau.
Bennett did the best that he could here with what he was given. That the Flames coaching staff didn't give him much is not on him.
__________________
"May those who accept their fate find happiness. May those who defy it find glory."
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04-30-2021, 11:03 AM
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#1652
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wastedyouth
Dillon Dube and Andrew Mangiapane have done more with less in their time and development with the Flames. They are better players and werent gifted with the benefit of the doubt and chances a 4th over all pick does.
The only issue Sam Bennett had was Sam Bennett.
Everyone just needs to get over it.
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It’s funny that you mention Dube because there is a very good case to be made that the Flames are once again converting a potential impact centre into a bottom six grinding winger.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wastedyouth
If he is truly this dominant long term, then this is just more proof this was all a Bennett thing.
If he had another gear, as he showed in the Playoffs and NEVER in the regular season, then the failure of Sam Bennett is on Sam Bennett.
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You don’t think Bennett not showing another gear in the regular season has anything to do with him being our best centre in the playoffs and getting rewarded by playing fourth line wing? His getting more than 18 mins of ice time 4 times in 400 games here? Ah, I see the light, you’re right. Flames are a model organization for developing stud centres, just look at our track record and all our success.
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04-30-2021, 11:06 AM
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#1653
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheScorpion
Just wait until the summer, when Brad trades the 104th pick from 2011 for two 1sts.
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Fair, but this is about unrealized value. He did get a good amount of on ice value for that pick
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04-30-2021, 11:08 AM
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#1654
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
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No one “gave” Monahan and Backlund “elite possession wingers”. They earned them. And when they were played with them, it worked. It’s not hard to figure out. Coaches stick with success.
Half of the Bennett defenders were irate he wasn’t put at centre by Hartley. Half of them were mad he wasn’t put on the wing with Monahan and Gaudreau.
They tried to grow Bennett with another first rounder, Jankowski. That’s not an abnormal call. They tried him as well with some guys who’d scored in the past. Brouwer, Neal, Jagr, Lucic. What he didn’t get was minutes. That’s probably a bigger argument about his development IMO.
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04-30-2021, 11:09 AM
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#1655
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btimbit
He said, as if to prove my point
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Hey, if you don’t like discussing the Sam Bennett trade, this is the wrong thread
You can always check out literally any other thread on CP
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04-30-2021, 11:11 AM
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#1656
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheScorpion
Just wait until the summer, when Brad trades the 104th pick from 2011 for two 1sts.
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Yep, values change
Oilers turned 2 first overalls into Adam Larsson by this logic.
It's not like teams were knocking down the door for Bennett and offering firsts. Anyone could have had him for this price.
__________________
GFG
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04-30-2021, 11:12 AM
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#1657
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Scoring Winger
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Kelowna
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FBI
Here's what matters to me:
8 GP: 5G, 6A = 11 points
+11, 1.38 PPG, 18:27 avg Ice time
That's not even getting into the corsi stuff...
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The bolded should be what matters to everybody. I'm happy for Bennett, he was a warrior on a team that suffers from GAF deficiency. His compete is what Calgary needs more of. But do not look past a bump with a new team in such a small sample size.
Jakub Vrana scored 4 goals the other night for the wings.
Anthony Mantha's scored a goal in each of his first 4 games with the Caps.
Nick Foligno has 3 assists in his 3 Leaf games.
These players weren't producing even close to this clip prior to their trades.
Last edited by DomeFoam; 04-30-2021 at 11:16 AM.
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04-30-2021, 11:14 AM
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#1658
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SW Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache
Hey, if you don’t like discussing the Sam Bennett trade, this is the wrong thread
You can always check out literally any other thread on CP
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Yeah, that's exactly what I was saying, absolutely. Read that over again and find where I said that.
'Nobody discuss Sam Bennett!'
lol
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04-30-2021, 11:18 AM
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#1659
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btimbit
Yeah, that's exactly what I was saying, absolutely. Read that over again and find where I said that.
'Nobody discuss Sam Bennett!'
lol
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Huh? Speaking of reading things over, take your own advice
I said if you didn’t ‘like’ those discussions (and you did characterize them as obnoxious), there are other threads
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04-30-2021, 11:19 AM
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#1660
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM
No one “gave” Monahan and Backlund “elite possession wingers”. They earned them. And when they were played with them, it worked. It’s not hard to figure out. Coaches stick with success.
Half of the Bennett defenders were irate he wasn’t put at centre by Hartley. Half of them were mad he wasn’t put on the wing with Monahan and Gaudreau.
They tried to grow Bennett with another first rounder, Jankowski. That’s not an abnormal call. They tried him as well with some guys who’d scored in the past. Brouwer, Neal, Jagr, Lucic. What he didn’t get was minutes. That’s probably a bigger argument about his development IMO.
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Did Bennett ‘earn’ time with Huberdeau? Quenneville, one of the best coaches of the past few decades, put him there without ever having him on his team. Why didn’t Q put Bennett with Lomberg and make him earn his way up?
As for the bolded, it’s a massive indictment on the Flames that they did not recognize what kinds of players Jankowski and Bennett are and tried to groom Bennett on the wing of a fourth liner. And I feel like I don’t really have to say much about the wingers that ‘scored before,’ if you don’t think that putting him with Brouwer and Neal were detrimental to his development I’m not sure what else there is to say. Btw it’s also a huge indictment on BT that those were the best wingers he could summon with his 5 mil AAV contracts
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