Francis with Kerr: Who is going?

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Any organization that makes a winger “the man” on their team is going to fail, good grief do we as Flames fans know that better than most.

It’s clear that Backlund and Monahan are not a good enough 1-2 punch down the middle though. So how do you fix that? Trading Gaudreau opens another big holeGM’ing is tough sledding, and as Flames fans we’re frustratingly exposed to the most incompetent, or one of the most incompetent, managements in the NHL.

4 playoff round victories in 29 years is a special kind of incompetence. Is Treliving the guy who’s going to correct that path of failure? This summer will be a huge test for him.

Does it though?

We are deep in LW, D and C.

If dealing JG gets you a legit 1c, and dealing Brodie gets you a 1rw. Then you move 19 to the 1lw spot.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I realize different positions and personalities but trading Gaudreau to shake up team chemistry or whatever seems similar to the Subban Weber trade.

Worse is you make a quality for quantity deal.

This team needs a change in style of play - unfortunately that probably means changing the coach. Play a system more high tempo and attacking.

Look at Hall with the Devils this year - they changed their style, he flourished and now is in Hart consideration.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Jiri's point was that the Flyers made a similar move because they felt they couldn't win with Carter and Richards.

But the Kings won with Carter and Richards, showing that the initial assumption was incorrect. Therefore his point was moot.

The Flames most definitely can win with Gaudreau. What they need is another top forward, not to trade the only one they've got.

The problem is how do they get that piece? Trade Monahan...trade Tkachuck. Trade Hamilton?

Every one of those just creates another hole.

Keep them all and it's a middling team who maybe draft a Barzal 2 years from now but that guy doesn't play a game till Gaudreau has signed a UFA deal in Phillly or been traded for less the year before his contract expired.

Maybe the answer was that Philly could not win with Carter and Richards leading the group. LA could already having Doughty/Kopitar/Quick in place and at the right age. Phillly couldn't trade everything else they had on that team for those pices.

To me that's sort of where the Flames are. They won't have a top flight team in the next three years with or without Gaudreau.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

The problem is how do they get that piece? Trade Monahan...trade Tkachuck. Trade Hamilton?

Every one of those just creates another hole.

To me that's sort of where the Flames are. They won't have a top flight team in the next three years.

... with this roster. 😀

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

The reason Carter went on to win in la is because they have Doughty, Kopitar and Quick. He is arguably not amongst even their top five most important guys
I think philly made themselves better with those deals

I agree and that’s what I was getting at. Enoch was jumping to conclusions that don’t disprove your point at all.

Philly has other problems and LA had other strengths. It does not prove that they were bad trades.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

Does it though?

We are deep in LW, D and C.

If dealing JG gets you a legit 1c, and dealing Brodie gets you a 1rw. Then you move 19 to the 1lw spot.

Yeah, it really does. I mean Gaudreau is a PPG player on an absolutely offensively starved team.

Gaudreau carried Ferland around all season. Gaudreau carried a broken Monahan up and down the ice for a good chunk of time.

I'm not outright opposed to trading Johnny - as it would be a hell of a return, but it's such a slippery slope to trade away the good players on a team to fix the problems.

Get rid of the passengers. Get rid of the cookie cutter emotionless garbage hockey players.

Where the hell was Backlund, Frolik, Brouwer, Brodie, and Stone all season long? Where the hell was Mike Smith after the all-star break? Ferland showed what he is this year, and he can't be on the 1st line going forward because he's not consistent enough to be a player in that role.

Bennett, Jankowski, Hathaway, Lazar - all young developing players who bounced up and down as you expect young, non-elite players to do.

If we can cash-out on Backlund, Frolik, Brouwer, Brodie, and Stone this summer we're better off. Those are the "emotionally unengaged" players.

[Housley4Prez]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

What an absolute pile of steaming crap.

Oh yeah? Where was he in the playoffs against Anaheim?

When does he step up to get us a game tying goal in important games?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by H2SO4(aq)

This gaudreau bs is so bizarre to me. Do you guys not watch him? He is like 60% of our offence. He is better than Kane. He is small but even still you see him engage physically like hitting byfuglien. He is competitive as hell. Johnny won’t get traded, he is the flames until they can get him more help.

Many don’t like that Gaudreau makes up too much of the offense. Yes that is a problem.

Trading him to solve that problem is an hysterical solution.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

If we can cash-out on Backlund, Frolik, Brouwer, Brodie, and Stone this summer we're better off. Those are the "emotionally unengaged" players.

Only Backlund and Bodie hold any value Stone maybe gets you a 4th and you likely pay to move the contracts of Brower and Frolik.

So at the end of the day you move 4 players off the roster maybe get new bodies with heavy contracts to replace them 2 late 1st round picks and part with 2 more 2nd's. You basically move the deck chairs on the Titanic. Yes it would be nice to rid yourself of all that...but you still have a bad team with a ton of cap space that good players who could help you won't take.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

Sounds like a discussion to sacrifice key Flames players over saving an idiot roster wrecking coach and the unaccountable GM that hired him.

Why do I get the eerie feeling some of the talk here is to soften up the fans so they'll accept GG being back next season.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Housley4Prez

Oh yeah? Where was he in the playoffs against Anaheim?



When does he step up to get us a game tying goal in important games?

He literally scored a game tying goal with seconds left against Anaheim in 2014 playoffs. Does he do it every playoff year (all two of them)? Does anyone?

[transplant99]

Monahan, Backlund, Brodie, Bennett, Frolik.

That, IMO, is the group that Francis is referring to.

[Sample00]

When Gulutzan brought his system in, I wonder if he considered whether the players he had were meant for his system. Sometimes you have a situation where a coach comes in to implement his system only to find out that the players he has arent capable of implementing his system or are lacking in talent to do so.

In that case, the coach needs to a) change the system or b) get players that can work within the system. Doing the latter is difficult. You cant do that in one or two trades. And if you have a situation where you have the former and the coach doesn't know how to change the system to accommodate his players, then you have to remove the coach.

It became painfully obvious that the players were unable to adapt to Gulutzans system for any great period of time which tells me that they weren't capable of implementing it long term. Treliving should have had the capacity to notice this and made a change when it became obvious.

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Umm no. We are capable of talking about other things outside the coach
This thread doesn’t mean the coach should stay

Umm Gulutzan damaged this team's will to win, player confidence and wanting to even continue the season.
The end to this season would have been far more higher on the try scale and more positive at the Dome if Bradley would have nutted up and Fired Gulutzan but he didn't. I don't fault a single veteran player for not giving their all when the management decided not to give their all by ridding the team of who was the most significant root of the problem.
Singling out core players and suggesting they be traded away under theses horid coaching circumstances is a real head scratcher.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by zamler

Why do I get the eerie feeling some of the talk here is to soften up the fans so they'll accept GG being back next season.

God I hope not. They can keep GG but they will lose even more revenue than if they would of coughed up for a decent coach. I will find something else to do with my time as will many fans.

[sempuki]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

I understand that it's nice to salivate over the return trading one of the league's best wingers could get (despite the fact it's extremely unlikely anyone puts forth the kind over-payment that would make it worth it), but that last statement is beyond perplexing.

You don't think you can win with one of the league's best playmakers who visibly makes everyone around him better and accounts for a staggering part of this team's offense? Dizzying.

Yeah but think of the return! It could be anything -- even an 80+ point offensive Dynamo!!

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by zamler

Why do I get the eerie feeling some of the talk here is to soften up the fans so they'll accept GG being back next season.

It's entirely possible GG is back, don't kid yourself.

If BT does his exit interviews and hears more along the lines that it was room chemistry above all else that saw the club sewer out, then why would he make the change behind the bench?

If he does his analysis and decides its predominantly a personnel problem as opposed to anything to do with x's and o's, then he will make the changes where he deems the issues are.

I still think GG gets ousted, but would not be surprised if it doesn't happen.

I think we see both coaching and player changes. A few of them.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

How does LA winning disprove Philly’s assumption? Just because they didn’t win without Carter and Richards doesn’t mean they would have won with them.

The assumption was that they couldn't win with those guys. LA won with those guys. So the assumption was wrong.

Pretty straight-forward.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Yeah, it really does. I mean Gaudreau is a PPG player on an absolutely offensively starved team.

Gaudreau carried Ferland around all season. Gaudreau carried a broken Monahan up and down the ice for a good chunk of time.

I'm not outright opposed to trading Johnny - as it would be a hell of a return, but it's such a slippery slope to trade away the good players on a team to fix the problems.

Get rid of the passengers. Get rid of the cookie cutter emotionless garbage hockey players.

Where the hell was Backlund, Frolik, Brouwer, Brodie, and Stone all season long? Where the hell was Mike Smith after the all-star break? Ferland showed what he is this year, and he can't be on the 1st line going forward because he's not consistent enough to be a player in that role.

Bennett, Jankowski, Hathaway, Lazar - all young developing players who bounced up and down as you expect young, non-elite players to do.

If we can cash-out on Backlund, Frolik, Brouwer, Brodie, and Stone this summer we're better off. Those are the "emotionally unengaged" players.

I don't agree with your Backlund comments at all but to me at issue is what kind of team Treliving wants. If he's adamant on a team that grinds out 2-1 games he likely keeps Gulutzan and trades out skilled players.

If his design is to make this team in the mold of Arizona teams where it was built around Smith and the d corps then this will get ugly.

When he started he had a bunch of skilled yet undersized players and you would often hear him say - how do we make it fit?

Well you can see how the roster has transformed - what he thought was needed and you see the results. Obviously there were spurts of winning hockey but it was really spurts. To build a consistent winner in the game today, you need speed and skill (not streaks of hot goaltending and just enough scoring).

He seemingly values intangibles over skill and if correct that is extremely disconcerting.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I agree and that’s what I was getting at. Enoch was jumping to conclusions that don’t disprove your point at all.

Philly has other problems and LA had other strengths. It does not prove that they were bad trades.

I jumped to no conclusions at all. I simply disproved a point.