Ocean Wiesblatt discussion

[MoneyGuy]

Haven’t been following this closely but isn’t the subject line inaccurate in that the arrest was for resisting, refusing to leave the ice when asked, and refusing to provide ID and not for breaking COVID protocols?

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

Haven’t been following this closely but isn’t the subject line inaccurate in that the arrest was for resisting, refusing to leave the ice when asked, and refusing to provide ID and not for breaking COVID protocols?

Yes.

[AhiChicken]

What's the deal with not updating the thread title?

[jayswin]

It's all about who starts it. Regular thread starters know and understand the board and tools and are active in updating. If a non-regular starts an important thread they'll often not even check the board for days/weeks, let alone know to change a thread title.

[Nage Waza]

Someone posted an interesting perspective on the web, and it went something like this. If police can call off car chases, why can't they do the same for these really stupid situations?

The police clearly ended the hockey game, he seemed like he was the only person on the ice, were they police not successful in completing their 'mission'? Why make the kid leave the ice?

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Someone posted an interesting perspective on the web, and it went something like this. If police can call off car chases, why can't they do the same for these really stupid situations?

The police clearly ended the hockey game, he seemed like he was the only person on the ice, were they police not successful in completing their 'mission'? Why make the kid leave the ice?

Because he’s not skating around the city putting people driving their cars, pedestrians, and police officers at risk. Not really an interesting perspective.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

The police clearly ended the hockey game, he seemed like he was the only person on the ice, were they police not successful in completing their 'mission'? Why make the kid leave the ice?

As I asked that other fellow...who decides who stays and who goes and by what criteria? For fairness, everyone using the ice for any reason was asked to leave the ice. He refused. So if he refuses to leave the ice and the other 39 people are all like "WTF, why are we leaving and not him?" then they go back on the ice...the problem starts all over again.

So technically, no...until everyone is off the ice, the police are not 'successful in completing their mission'.

If he really wanted to game the system...he should have left the ice when the Bylaw officer asked. Gone over to his car with his buddies and very, very slowly started taking off his gear. When everyone's off the ice and the Bylaw officer leaves in 5 minutes because they are busy AF right now, they just go back on. In this scenario, all they 'lose' are the 5-10 minutes it takes to clear the ice.

[Nage Waza]

There were other people on the ice, not everyone had to leave.

This guy clearly messed up, but the police also could have made different decisions. When I was a kid the police would show up and break up a party, and if it started up again, escalate.

The police shouldn’t be in the business of breaking up hockey games, but obviously these are different times...people can’t get their attention as it is to investigate crime and that is a source of criticism.

[Mr.Coffee]

I don’t think the police are in the business of breaking up hockey games. Recall that at first it was a bylaw officer who arrived, and who was ignored.

Like at the end of the day there really is no pretzel-logic-ing your way into blaming authorities for this one. The guy was being an idiot, he got himself into trouble. That’s what happens. That’s something my dad told me when I was around 6 years old.

I was at Canyon Meadows hill yesterday for some social distance sledding with my kids down the hill at their hockey rinks. There was a pick up game and I’d wager around 10-12 people playing. A cop literally drove by and didn’t slow down or seem to care in the least.

They aren’t in the “business of breaking up hockey games”, and people’s “freedoms” are fine.

[Scooter]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I don’t think the police are in the business of breaking up hockey games. Recall that at first it was a bylaw officer who arrived, and who was ignored.

Like at the end of the day there really is no pretzel-logic-ing your way into blaming authorities for this one. The guy was being an idiot, he got himself into trouble. That’s what happens. That’s something my dad told me when I was around 6 years old.

I was at Canyon Meadows hill yesterday for some social distance sledding with my kids down the hill at their hockey rinks. There was a pick up game and I’d wager around 10-12 people playing. A cop literally drove by and didn’t slow down or seem to care in the least.

They aren’t in the “business of breaking up hockey games”, and people’s “freedoms” are fine.

Ain't that the truth. Well said!

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I don’t think the police are in the business of breaking up hockey games. Recall that at first it was a bylaw officer who arrived, and who was ignored.

Like at the end of the day there really is no pretzel-logic-ing your way into blaming authorities for this one. The guy was being an idiot, he got himself into trouble. That’s what happens. That’s something my dad told me when I was around 6 years old.

I was at Canyon Meadows hill yesterday for some social distance sledding with my kids down the hill at their hockey rinks. There was a pick up game and I’d wager around 10-12 people playing. A cop literally drove by and didn’t slow down or seem to care in the least.

They aren’t in the “business of breaking up hockey games”, and people’s “freedoms” are fine.

Trust me, I’m not arguing about covid at all, we should have been ticketing masks much earlier and had far stricter rules. And I support the police. The resisting was brutal as well, he will be charged and I am good with that. I shouldn’t be defending what I haven’t ever posted either....

I do believe this could have been avoided by both parties, he could have followed their direction, but could this have been handled differently by the police. Im not sure

We are paying for this service and can debate its effectiveness.

[WhiteTiger]

Alright. Once more unto the breach then, it is. A concerned citizen noticed that there were ~40 people using a rink there was only supposed to be 15. They called Bylaw. Bylaw shows up to break it up due to current Covid restrictions. Police did not cruise by, see the hockey game and decide to break it up.

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

There were other people on the ice, not everyone had to leave.

The two enforcement agencies involved were dealing with Ocean on scene for almost 40 minutes. In that time, other folks, who had not been cleared from the ice, showed up and were likely allowed to use the ice.

This guy clearly messed up, but the police also could have made different decisions. When I was a kid the police would show up and break up a party, and if it started up again, escalate.

What different decisions? What would you have had Bylaw and CPS do with someone clearly being belligerent and refusing to comply? Please, tell us. I'd really like to hear.

Ocean's first chance was with the Bylaw officer. Bylaw's general go-to in this case is to show up, and ask people to comply. (If you are wondering, covid restriction violation is almost all that Bylaw does anymore. In the first couple weeks of the new restrictions, they had ~500 complaints to investigate.) Almost everyone involved does. No one gets a ticket. Ocean decides he's better than everyone else and has an anti-mask point to make and this is the hill he's decided to die on. He refuses to leave.

The Bylaw officer now has 2 choices. Continue to ask and hope he goes, or issue a ticket. Somewhere in the 15 minutes that Bylaw is dealing with Ocean, the decision to issue a ticket is made. Ocean continues to be a belligerent soul. The Bylaw officer, unable to perform his duties, contacts police.

Police show up, and are likely told that Ocean is being belligerent and that Bylaw has decided to issue him a ticket. In the ~20 minutes BEFORE the video starts, CPS attempts to get Ocean to ID himself and comply. He refuses at every step.

The video occurs.

Post-video incidents occur.

The police shouldn’t be in the business of breaking up hockey games, but obviously these are different times...people can’t get their attention as it is to investigate crime and that is a source of criticism.

Police did not "break up a hockey game", they arrived to deal with someone who was being a belligerent ***** to Bylaw. When they arrived, he was a belligerent **** to them. He literally talked himself INTO a ticket. Then doubled down and kept going, talking and acting himself into 2 criminal charges. In the course of the ~40 minutes on scene of the encounter, police arrived, witnessed a crime and investigated it.

You want to know why it can be difficult for police to investigate 'your' crime in a timely manner? They end up spending ~2 hours in total dealing with situations like this, which, if folks are reasonable about in the first place, never should happen.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

You want to know why it can be difficult for police to investigate 'your' crime in a timely manner? They end up spending ~2 hours in total dealing with situations like this, which, if folks are reasonable about in the first place, never should happen.

When I used to do airport security, it used to blow my mind to have to respond to a call where it just some guy arguing over the rules for entering the airport, and I used to just tell them if you just did what you were supposed to do, you'd already be inside; instead your on the outside now complaining that you're late on top of everything else.


Just shut up and follow the perfectly reasonable rules. The person you're arguing with can't change those rules.

[Locke]

Whats that old saying?

"Play stupid games, win stupid prizes?"

He could have gone home at any time with almost no consequences. This was his decision.

[Reggie Dunlop]

I would suggest moving this thread to the COVID-19 forum, as it's not really hockey (or Flames) related.