[News] Flames reveal training camp roster. Treliving to address media at 11 AM MT

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Igottago

You must be an extremely naïve person to think that anyone here is suggesting a Stanley Cup or bust. Perhaps you need a little bit of assistance understanding nuance.

I am fine, thanks.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

What's the deal with Parsons?

He busted years ago

Kept around for expansion draft requirements and maybe optics of essentially being the return for Hudler

If losing him is the only vaccination issue the franchise faces it’s a complete non issue

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

The condescending move is more effective if you’ve actually read the thread so you know what the poster is responding too. Otherwise “let me help you out with the nuance” just kind of looks silly.

Lol, but not silly when he himself used the same condescension responding to me right? Speaking of reading the thread.

I'll let you guys proceed with your self congratulatory posts and virtual high fives.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Lol, but not silly when he himself used the same condescension responding to me right? Speaking of reading the thread.

I'll let you guys proceed with your self congratulatory posts and virtual high fives.

You suggested that the plain understanding of Treliving's "goals" was to make the playoffs and be done with it. It is a nonsensical interpretation, and you deserve the derision you received for it.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

What's the deal with Parsons?

He's owning the libs by destroying his career.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Funny part is they actually broke through on what was the downswing of that supposed run.

12-13: 2nd in Central - Lost in First Round
13-14: 2nd in Central - Lost in First Round
14-15: 1st in Cetnral - Lost in First Round
15-16: 2nd in Central - Lost in Conference Finals
16-17: 3rd in Central - Lost in Second Round
17-18: 5th in Central - Missed Playoffs
18-19: 3rd in Central - Won Cup
19-20: 1st in Central - Lost in First Round
20-21: 4th in West - Lost in First Round

There were a lot of first round losses in the mix for the Blues too...

I think the biggest misconception people have is that a teams progression is linear, and that a team is always going to develop and get better in a straight line.

And really in the NHL that just isn't true, teams grow and develop in cycles. Washington, Tampa, Pittsburgh, LA, none of those teams had linear progression leading up to their cup wins.

They would have good seasons, then have a step back and have a bad season, then have a couple good seasons. And I think people also think building a winner comes quickly...when really it doesn't and really the only team that had that happen were Chicago and Pittsburgh (first cup in 08-09) in the last 20 years.

Washington, Tampa, LA, St.Louis all took years to get to the point where they won the cup.

Over the last three seasons as a whole the Flames have the 4th best record in the Western Conference. Sure that's mostly on the back of a strong 18-19, but that's a lot better performance over time than a lot of people on here would have you believe. In that same time frame they are 3rd in the conference in Corsi For, 3rd in xGF% behind only Colorado and Vegas. Really what has held them back is that they are 12th in the conference in save percentage over that 3 year time period.

You've hit the nail on the head. Every year, 75% of the teams don't make it past the first round of the playoffs. Only a handful of those are true lottery teams. With so few teams making it past the first round, there is a high degree of randomness in which teams advance in the playoffs (just look at TBL, from being swept in the 1st round one year to winning the Cup the next). I was at game 2 of the Flames vs. the Avs in 2019, and we were a bounce, a call, or (especially) a timely save away from taking a decisive lead in that series. The Flames came out fast and confident, and dominated parts of that game, but after the overtime loss, you could just see the team's confidence deflate, and they were never the same the rest of the series. At the same time, MacKinnon's confidence soared, and he got in the heads of the Flames. I still think that if the Flames had won that game, they would have won the series, and could have made it all the way to the finals.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

You suggested that the plain understanding of Treliving's "goals" was to make the playoffs and be done with it. It is a nonsensical interpretation, and you deserve the derision you received for it.

I wasn't even responding to you in the first place, just making a general comment about the "make the playoffs and see what happens" philosophy, which I personally disagree with. If Trelving's objectives are greater than that he can clarify, or state them as such, there are a lot of question marks about where the team is competitively right now. Perhaps he is really just hoping to make the playoffs and hoping for the best with the current squad.

I didn't come in snarky or condescending against any poster on the thread, you took it there. Amazing that people like you want to act like the high benchmark for discussion here yet you have no issues with your own drive by insults, yet when I respond in kind then I'm the guy that shouldn't be posting that way. People wonder why this forum is going to crap.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

...I was at game 2 of the Flames vs. the Avs in 2019, and we were a bounce, a call, or (especially) a timely save away from taking a decisive lead in that series. The Flames came out fast and confident, and dominated parts of that game, but after the overtime loss, you could just see the team's confidence deflate, and they were never the same the rest of the series. At the same time, MacKinnon's confidence soared, and he got in the heads of the Flames. I still think that if the Flames had won that game, they would have won the series, and could have made it all the way to the finals.

Even after having their confidence shaken in Game 2, the Flames very nearly went on to win Game 4, and extend that series to at least six games. The margin between winning and losing in the playoffs is most often extremely thin.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Igottago

I wasn't even responding to you in the first place, just making a general comment about the "make the playoffs and see what happens" philosophy, which I personally disagree with. If Trelving's objectives are greater than that he can clarify, or state them as such, there are a lot of question marks about where the team is competitively right now. Perhaps he is really just hoping to make the playoffs and hoping for the best with the current squad.

I didn't come in snarky or condescending against any poster on the thread, you took it there. Amazing that people like you want to act like the high benchmark for discussion here yet you have no issues with your own drive by insults, yet when I respond in kind then I'm the guy that shouldn't be posting that way. People wonder why this forum is going to crap.

This is the post you were responding to right?

Originally Posted by Textcritic

This is your impression, but I don't believe for a moment that this has always been THE goal. But then, by the same token, the reason it seems like this is an organisational approach is because the Flames have so infrequently been in a home-ice position to start the playoffs. But this is a product of circumstances, not the target.


In twenty years there has been ten Stanley Cup-winning teams. It is extremely hard to win, and the fact of the matter is that most teams will never win one. Twelve teams have never won one. It took St Louis and Washington over forty years to win their first, and both are probably nearly as far away now from winning another one. Toronto has not won in over fifty years, and they look like they could realistically miss out on their best opportunity to win in at least two decades. No Canadian team has won in nearly thirty years.

The reality is that very few teams are fortunate and savvy enough to even open a true competitive window, and that most of the time this is what hockey teams can expect: either to miss outright, or to be eliminated in the first round. Teams like those in Calgary, Minnesota, Columbus, Florida, Manhatten, Toronto, Winnipeg and elsewhere illustrate just how difficult and futile it can be to build a championship team. Teams like in Edmonton and Buffalo show that even under ideal conditions spectacular failure can occur.

Winnning is very hard. But it is a mistake to misconstrue the lack of success for an absence of desire or motive. That is just nonsense. Every team, every management group, every owner, every player, every fan wants more than anything to win a championship, and no one anywhere is merely content if all their team ever does is make the playoffs.


Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

Where is the drive by in that?

Where does he call you naive and suggest you don't understand the word nuance?

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Bingo

This is the post you were responding to right?



Where is the drive by in that?

Where does he call you naive and suggest you don't understand the word nuance?

Post #150, responding directly to me. I don't know how to copy the whole post.

"There is a reason why context governs so much of our language, and why there is almost never the expectation that our words—especially those delivered off-the-cuff in response to questions at a press gathering—will be understood so inflexible literally.

No one here or anywhere is under the impression that after making the playoffs Treliving—or any other NHL GM, for that matter—will kick up his feet and declare "mission accomplished!" You must be an exceptionally naive person for suggesting that this is technically satisfying the team's season-goals. That, or you struggle mightily with the art of nuance.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk"

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Where is the drive by in that?

Where does he call you naive and suggest you don't understand the word nuance?

Here:

Originally Posted by Textcritic

...No one here or anywhere is under the impression that after making the playoffs Treliving—or any other NHL GM, for that matter—will kick up his feet and declare "mission accomplished!" You must be an exceptionally naive person for suggesting that this is technically satisfying the team's season-goals. That, or you struggle mightily with the art of nuance.

Which I posted in response to this nonsensical notion that simply making the playoffs and doing nothing else was the end-goal for Treliving on the season:

Originally Posted by Igottago

If the Flames make the playoffs this season and get smashed up in the first round that would technically qualify as fulfilling Treliving's goal. They made the playoffs and saw what happened.

[ComixZone]

wrong thread

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Here:

Which I posted in response to this nonsensical notion that simply making the playoffs and doing nothing else was the end-goal for Treliving on the season:

That wasn't my point, when I said no one would be happy with it, I am including Flames management, so what's the point in even stating qualifying for the playoffs as the goal. But whatever. Done with this discussion. You and your buddies can carry on the smartest guys in the room routine while the rest of us go back to just popping by here from time to time for news updates, which seems to be the most sensible way to interact with this forum lately.

[klikitiklik]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

I would like to hear more about Tre’s hair. Any pics?

Here you go

NSFW!

Thanks for the help Textcritic

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by klikitiklik

Here you go

https://imgur.com/a/W9oBGI9

How the heck do you post a pic? I followed all the instructions

You have to copy the image address—not the web-page address—and paste it into the required field. For this particular picture it would look like this, but sandwiched inside the [IMG][/IMG] tags:

https://i.imgur.com/XiSm5C8.jpeg

Although, I would not recommend posting this particular picture, because it is for some reason massive.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by neo45

He busted years ago

Kept around for expansion draft requirements and maybe optics of essentially being the return for Hudler

If losing him is the only vaccination issue the franchise faces it’s a complete non issue

Yes, a just turned 24 year old goalie busted years ago. Some of the ridiculous things said on here....

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Yes, a just turned 24 year old goalie busted years ago. Some of the ridiculous things said on here....

We know you LOVE Parsons but the guy hasn’t been a top prospect for a few years now. When was the last time people were legit hoping he was the next one? 2018/2019?

Not nearly as ridiculous as you are trying to make it out to be

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

We know you LOVE Parsons but the guy hasn’t been a top prospect for a few years now. When was the last time people were legit hoping he was the next one? 2018/2019?

Not nearly as ridiculous as you are trying to make it out to be

Goalies take longer to develop. I guess the guy we signed a big contract to as a UFA to be our starter is a bust too as he didn't really come into his own until his late 20's. Saying a 24 year old goalie busted out years ago is ridiculous, that is implying he never was a decent prospect. There are certainly no guarantees he gets back on track but the possibility is there.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by klikitiklik

Here you go

NSFW!

Thanks for the help Textcritic

Originally Posted by Textcritic

You have to copy the image address—not the web-page address—and paste it into the required field. For this particular picture it would look like this, but sandwiched inside the [IMG][/IMG] tags:

https://i.imgur.com/XiSm5C8.jpeg

Although, I would not recommend posting this particular picture, because it is for some reason massive.

If you enter a lowercase L before .jpeg on imgur links it will post a smaller size.

Example (from above): https://i.imgur.com/XiSm5C8l.jpeg

[neo45]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Goalies take longer to develop. I guess the guy we signed a big contract to as a UFA to be our starter is a bust too as he didn't really come into his own until his late 20's. Saying a 24 year old goalie busted out years ago is ridiculous, that is implying he never was a decent prospect. There are certainly no guarantees he gets back on track but the possibility is there.

He’s shown literally nothing good at the pro level even when healthy

Goalie progression isn’t linear but if you’re 24 and not good at the ECHL it’s over for you as a pro

If he hasn’t busted then literally no goalie prospect can be labeled a bust 6 years after his draft class, which is ridiculous

The Markstrom comparison is seriously hilarious. He won the world champs at the same as the starter, had started 40 nhl games and had three good seasons in the AHL. Very Parsons-esque