The Versteeg/Stajan/Brouwer line

[cannon7]

It's mystifying that the Bennett-Jankowski-Lazar line hasn't scored a goal yet considering how many chances they've collectively created. I attribute a lot of it to unlucky bounces and nerves. The Versteeg-Stajan-Brouwer line rarely generates any offense at all, it's a good shift if they can clear the puck and dump it. I think once the Jankowski line gets the monkey off their back they'll be solid contributors offensively, assuming Gulutzan keeps them together long enough to let that happen. I would seriously consider playing Versteeg as the 13th forward, getting only PP and sheltered minutes, and putting Glass in his spot. Then putting Stajan in the press box for a few games. Doubt Gulutzan does anything like that, though.

[madmike]

For me the biggest problem is Versteeg. I know he has the most points of the bunch but he’s slow and plays die on his stick all the time. I really dont mind Stajan and Brouwer on the 4th line.

[Kipper_3434]

Just realized this line counts for nearly 9.5m in cap space. Is there any team in the league who's fourth line makes close to that?

[GullFoss]

Out of the three of them, Brouwer has looked the best. Which is encouraging given the duration remaining on his contract. The fourth line should be:

Hathaway-Lazar-Brouwer

-All three are phsyical
-Hathaway and Lazar have speed
-All three are defensively responsible

[Geeoff]

I dunno. I'd just like someone in the bottom 6 to contribute offensively

[Itse]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

In fairness, they had a bunch of chances when Brouwer was in, especially on the first PP. It wasn't his fault they didn't go in.

When he's not getting in on the rebounds, or tipping the pucks, it kind of is.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Itse

When he's not getting in on the rebounds, or tipping the pucks, it kind of is.

Fair enough. I'm happy if they make a change. I haven't seen many chances for him to do that, though. The PP has been so slow that most pucks are being blocked before they get to the net front.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Fair enough. I'm happy if they make a change. I haven't seen many chances for him to do that, though. The PP has been so slow that most pucks are being blocked before they get to the net front.

Yeah it's not all on him by any means. But still, when rebounds happen Brouwer pretty much never gets them. Nor does he get his stick on the pucks to tip them. I also think he should move around more, from screening to being an option for a one-timer and back to screening again. He's a part of why our PP isn't very good right now.

Ferland or Tkachuk would probably do a better job.

EDIT: I'm starting to wonder if our PP isn't partly an example of bad analytics.

I'm sure on the paper it's creating "dangerous scoring chances" like rebounds or screened shots, and there's an assumption that because chances are created, goals will come and the drought is just bad luck.

However, if you don't factor in how good the player in front of the goal is at putting in rebounds or tipping pucks, you're missing something huge.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Before the season, I saw stajan as an ideal 13th forward-mentor, and that's where I think he should be utilized. Glass is what he is.

Honestly I think at this point, if we don't have a skill spot available for verteeg, he should probably be dealt to a place where he can play.

There are stockton players who are better suited to a bottom 6 role.

I agree with this. Stajan still provides depth, should injuries hit. And that depth gets magnified in the playoffs.

For now, he should be in the press box.

[CalgaryFan1988]

It's too bad that how good Stajan looked at LW seems to get forgotten. He was really effective there, at C not so much.

I'd like to see Lazar centering Stajan, when Jagr is back at 100 percent.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by pepper24

I’d move Bennett to 4th line and Versteeg to 3rd line when Jagr is back.

10-77-68
93-18-36

Sub in Glass on 4th line for Bennett or Brouwer when needed.


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This is the worst suggestion possible for Bennett, IMO. His confidence is shot right now, and turning him into a fourth line grinder might actually end his career. It would certainly end it with this franchise.

If you were going to do that, it would be better to simply trade him.

And I think trading him is a terrible idea as well (but still better than your suggestion).

Bennett needs to be put in a position to succeed so that he can gain his confidence back.

(Now back to regularly scheduled programming of whining about our 4th line.)

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

This is the worst suggestion possible for Bennett, IMO. His confidence is shot right now, and turning him into a fourth line grinder might actually end his career. It would certainly end it with this franchise.

If you were going to do that, it would be better to simply trade him.

And I think trading him is a terrible idea as well (but still better than your suggestion).

Bennett needs to be put in a position to succeed so that he can gain his confidence back.

(Now back to regularly scheduled programming of whining about our 4th line.)

Bennett has been put in a position to succeed this season and past few seasons. He has been given a long leash and patience as he should but time is running out. He’s far out from draft year and not making steps. If it’s not working on 3rd line and he’s not providing secondary scoring with zero points this season. 4th line is not a stretch.



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[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

It's too bad that how good Stajan looked at LW seems to get forgotten. He was really effective there, at C not so much.

I'd like to see Lazar centering Stajan, when Jagr is back at 100 percent.

I always figured when centre proved to be too much for Stajan, wing would work. Stajan Lazar Brouwer is not a bad line. I'd sit Versteeg, because he's not useful on the fourth line.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Fair enough. I'm happy if they make a change. I haven't seen many chances for him to do that, though. The PP has been so slow that most pucks are being blocked before they get to the net front.

I watched how the Penguins stacked their first powerplay with all their top players and wonder why the Flames don't do the same. Gio, Hamilton, Tkachuk, Monahan, Gaudreau...tell me they wouldn't score more.

[Pipty]

Most teams don't have a good 4th line, and I bet many successful ones do not give them close to even playing time as their top 2.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by edslunch

I watched how the Penguins stacked their first powerplay with all their top players and wonder why the Flames don't do the same. Gio, Hamilton, Tkachuk, Monahan, Gaudreau...tell me they wouldn't score more.

I think it is astounding that Tkachuk is not being used as the guy in front of the net. MADE for the job.

The only sensible argument against it is that it screws up the regular lines. To which I would say, okay - then have him there on the 2nd PP with Backlund, and have either Bennett or Ferland in front of the net on the 1st unit.

But I would prefer loading up the 1st unit as well:

Tkachuk
Hamilton - Monahan - Gaudreau
Giordano

Hamilton and Gaudreau are on off wings, and you let Gaudreau run it from the right wall. He has 3 shooters to choose from, along with Tkachuk down low if the PK cheats high.

This lineup has more speed, more shooters, and more playmaking talent than the current first unit. Even with Ferland or Bennett in Tkachuk's spot, it is still substantially better than what we have now.

[Itse]

I was wondering;

One of the issues with this line is that it's a whole bunch of overpaid veterans no GM likes to bench. Emphasis on a whole bunch. One guy wouldn't be a problem, two would be tolerable, three is starting to be a real problem.

Obviously you'd like to get rid of either the worst of the bunch (Stajan) or the most expensive (Brouwer), but I think it's safe to say it's highly unlikely to find takers for those two.

So, how about trying to trade Versteeg? Do you think there would be takers? Would trading him (for what would presumably be a rather small return) be worth it? I'm talking about trying to trade him about now.

I think he could have some trade value if for nothing else than his recent good season.

Obviously a con would be that his trade value is low right now, and if he turns his game around he's actually quite valuable. So possibility of throwing away some depth for what's essentially just room in the lineup.

Pros, if he doesn't turn it around his trade value will just keep dropping, and Mangiapane (for example) is looking pretty good so we could use a spot in the lineup.

[Karl]

This is BY FAR the team's biggest concern.

The NHL game has now passed Stajan by and Brouwer & Versteeg are also really struggling to keep up with the pace of the NHL game now.

With that said, when Jagr comes back, I'd consider scratching Versteeg before even Stajan or Lazar.

Versteeg has been massively bad since just after the start of this year. He's been guilty of turning the puck over the most and the worst since about the 4th game of the year. Tons of plays have died on his stick.

[Itse]

So, do you think he has any trade value or not? Is he movable?

[Karl]

Originally Posted by Itse

So, do you think he has any trade value or not? Is he movable?

Who? Versteeg, Brouwer or Stajan??