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Old 03-21-2017, 10:05 AM   #321
OMG!WTF!
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Yeah but the CSC alone lets you trade stocks for people, but not on a discretionary basis. If you want to actually manage other peoples money on their behalf you have to be licensed for that.
Sorry if I'm bugging for information. It's just really hard to get this info from these websites. Maybe I'm just dense. What's the difference between trading stocks for people and managing money for people? I know the theory of both but not the regulations and requirements for them.

I've also noticed the difference in regulation over the years. My first broker in the 90's was all over the place, private placements, risky stocks, loans, mortgages, debentures. My last experience a few years ago was much different...pick portfolio 1, 2 or 3 based on your risk tolerance. People I know with advisors who do pick stocks are very cautious to do so and would much rather add to a prescribed portfolio. I don't know if this is typical or if it's just my experience.

Thanks very much for the info.
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Old 03-21-2017, 10:18 AM   #322
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You have to be licenced to trade stocks as well. As you know.

There are basically three levels of registration.

With the MFDA you can sell mutual funds only. The CSC and CPH allow you to start doing that. (I would never start with any other course as it limits your options.)

The second level is under IIROC and there are many different levels of what you can do. Again, it starts with the CSC and CPH. You can trade stocks, mutual funds and other vehicles. There are also specializations for options as you progress. You can also be a discretionary manager with a specific IIROC designation. Discretionary means you don't need to ask the client for permission before entering a trade. You can use your own discretion if it is suitable for the client. The vast majority of IIROC registrants are not discretionary.

The third level of registration is as a portfolio manager under the ASC. This requires a CFA designation which is horribly difficult to obtain.

You can simply trade stocks for people as an order taker. You would likely be at an iiroc firm and not have suitability obligations. This is another special category or registration.
This would be a discount broker. Any other purchases for a client would have to take into account their risk tolerance, investment objectives and the know your client information. You would have to take into account their entire situation to determine if the trade is suitable for them. There is little distinction between this and "managing money" for people. The level of service is variable with every advisor but they are all "managing money" for people. As you progress and gather certifications the services you are able to competently offer grow. This would be where Slava and Moneyguy are now. You can get into the industry without and credentials and then work on them as you work. The more credentials you have, the higher you start.
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Old 03-21-2017, 10:24 AM   #323
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This is a great map that provides an overview of the industry and all the various options.
I don't think it is embeddable.

https://www.csi.ca/student/en_ca/careermap/index.xhtml

By choosing one of the careers, you can see the path to getting credentials:
https://www.csi.ca/student/en_ca/car...estmentAdvisor

The typical advisor would have the first four courses there. The WME has to be done within 3 years (I think)
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Old 03-21-2017, 10:30 AM   #324
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Originally Posted by OMG!WTF! View Post
Sorry if I'm bugging for information. It's just really hard to get this info from these websites. Maybe I'm just dense. What's the difference between trading stocks for people and managing money for people? I know the theory of both but not the regulations and requirements for them.

I've also noticed the difference in regulation over the years. My first broker in the 90's was all over the place, private placements, risky stocks, loans, mortgages, debentures. My last experience a few years ago was much different...pick portfolio 1, 2 or 3 based on your risk tolerance. People I know with advisors who do pick stocks are very cautious to do so and would much rather add to a prescribed portfolio. I don't know if this is typical or if it's just my experience.

Thanks very much for the info.
Sorry, on a bit of roll here but...

Specialization is a really big deal. You have to ask yourself who is doing the research on the company that is being picked? Who is comparing it to all the other companies out there? If it is your guy, where is his expertise and where is he spending his time? He is meeting clients, running his book, dealing with head office and compliance, etc. where is he getting the time to do all the research to come up with a recommendation?

Conversely, a portfolio manager or Investment fund manager has a large staff specializing in one particular area and asset class. They can make recommendations to a fund to cover a particular geographic or asset class. Then the fund can be tailored to fit different risk profiles. This is very efficient and can be used by many different clients. It is one approach. There are many.
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Old 03-21-2017, 10:38 AM   #325
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Originally Posted by OMG!WTF! View Post
Sorry if I'm bugging for information. It's just really hard to get this info from these websites. Maybe I'm just dense. What's the difference between trading stocks for people and managing money for people? I know the theory of both but not the regulations and requirements for them.

I've also noticed the difference in regulation over the years. My first broker in the 90's was all over the place, private placements, risky stocks, loans, mortgages, debentures. My last experience a few years ago was much different...pick portfolio 1, 2 or 3 based on your risk tolerance. People I know with advisors who do pick stocks are very cautious to do so and would much rather add to a prescribed portfolio. I don't know if this is typical or if it's just my experience.

Thanks very much for the info.
No, it's totally fine with me, although hopefully people don't mind the thread derail that this is becoming!

So the difference is that if you manage money on a discretionary basis then you have authority to make trades for people on their behalf. So for example, you decide that today is the day that your clients should move from ABC holding to DEF. You just make your trade and it's done (with proper documentation and things like that).

If you aren't licensed for that though, you can make recommendations, but the final say isn't yours as an advisor/manager. You are seeking your clients permission to make trades and have to get their permission and authorisation to do trades and transactions.
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Old 12-18-2020, 11:41 PM   #326
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Holy christ, just read through this thread after bizaro linked it in the rich calgarypuck guy thread.

What a great thread. I can't believe some of the stories looking back. I've known you guys a long time...

An update to my strange non-answer, at the time, I was in a very unhappy marriage, I had just left a job that I loved in Indigenous Relations and gone to work in fund development for a non-profit. It was a job/role that I hated, was terrible in, and spent far too long hammering away at.

I moved to Vancouver with my ex so she could go to law school, took a similar job at UBC, had a similarly horrible time where I felt that all my career ambitions and skills were just going to the toilet. Then, I got divorced, spent some time in the wasteland of the old brain, quit my job, drank whisky at 10 am for a few days (very bad idea), and then dusted off my old resume and got to work.

Since then, I've gotten right back into my field doing government relations and comms work for business, got to sit on some provincial working groups on the DRIPA legislation, and a year ago, landed my dream job at a firm where I basically just get to do Indigenous Relations again.

I love my job and like many people in here who also said they loved their jobs, I just kind of do it, don't think about, make good bucks, and spend my life doing other wonderful fun things.

Anyway, I'm 35 now. Funny how life goes along and teaches you things.

Hope everyone is doing well.
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Old 12-19-2020, 07:42 AM   #327
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Hope everyone that was unhappy five years ago is a little happier now. And hopefully everyone that was already happy is still happy.

Heck, considering it’s 2020, still having a job at all is probably not a bad thing
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Old 12-19-2020, 08:22 AM   #328
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I started this thread over 5 years ago.

Update: I'm still in law, but in a different job. I don't hate my life anymore. Life is still stressful at times, but every job has its ups and downs. I'm more realistic about that fact now, but I absolutely needed a job change.

I also have really gotten into investing. Dreaming of retiring early is a nice motivation!
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Old 12-19-2020, 10:38 AM   #329
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The pandemic has kick started an idea I had for just over a year. Growing up in Calgary, working in O&G, I specifically went out looking for a downturn proof career. And basically have that. However, it is incredibly isolating, and I was working remote before this all started.

My new goal, is to have a “phased retirement”. I’m going to continue pushing through my job until I have cleared all my debts for school, and have padded some savings to cover income deduction. During that time I am going to take a few odd courses in things I have interest in, that are more nature and public related. I really want to work with people, all the time. I like people, even when they drive me nuts. And I like to see hands on results, which isn’t what I do now. I have two future career ideas in place, one more physical, and the second a bit less demanding. Neither pay what I would be making at my current job, but I don’t care about that anymore.

Essentially I don’t plan on ever retiring, I plan on doing something that I love nearing the second half of my adult life.
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Old 12-19-2020, 02:56 PM   #330
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I'm actually happy with my career change and going to running my own thing. It lets me do different and interesting things every day.


From working with companies on the business and sales/marketing practices, to helping startups in terms of their planning and product development. While working on recruiting case mangers and contact tracers on another job. Every day is different and I'm talking to different people with interesting stories every day. Plus there's a certain amount of freedom to my schedule. I can chose when I work on things as long as the work gets done.


I don't know how long I'm going to do this style of work, or if I'm going to look for something more normal, but its gotten me through some tough times.
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Old 12-19-2020, 04:52 PM   #331
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I was not aware of this thread previously, but I am very happy with my career choice and really could not have imagined any other path. Really the only other thing I really i thought about was a military career and in that case I may have not lived through it.

Certainly from a financial standpoint I can now retire but I have no idea what I would do as my career still holds my primary interest. One thing I liked was the ability to change specialities twice while staying in the same field.

Last edited by Flamenspiel; 12-19-2020 at 04:58 PM.
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Old 12-19-2020, 04:54 PM   #332
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I'm still working in the same industry as 5 years ago (different company) and I wouldn't change a thing. Its really a perfect balance of professional and physical. The pay doesn't hurt either.
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Old 12-19-2020, 05:25 PM   #333
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Just caught some of Albert Brooks' Lost in America the other night. This thread reminds me of that movie.
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Old 12-19-2020, 05:27 PM   #334
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I just joined a new team in the Experiences + Devices engineering org. working on a product group. It's fantastic, and is the next step I've been working toward in my career for a while now.
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Old 12-20-2020, 11:26 AM   #335
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Another lawyer here. I graduated about 8 years ago.

IMO the biggest issue with the current practice of law is that the firm model is broken. Law firms simply cannot afford to function and pay their lawyers a fair wage. They've also increased the workload substantially as customers have become much tighter on what a billable hour looks like. So you've got a situation where young lawyers are doing more but less interesting work for far less pay. It also doesn't help that many of the "perks" like cocktail lunches have been stripped from the job.

I found at all the law firms I worked at, other lawyers looked at you as a competitor or cheap labour...or possibly someone they wanted to harass if you were a good looking young female. Lawyers, particularly those at larger firms, were not a good group of people to be around.

I also found many senior lawyers at bigger firms to be just straight out incompetent and offer little in the way of mentorship. They'd gotten to the position they were in by screwing other lawyers over or having family connections. In order to stay on long term at the large firms, you need to be a "rainmaker". The issue is how are you going to do that if your locked in your office 12 hours a day with little interaction with clients.

A few months ago I moved to a small firm, where I will be working on 100% commission. It's a big risk, but I'm also being given the opportunity to build my own practice. I get to chose which clients I take. I've taken a big pay cut this year, but if does work out, I'll be potentially making much more in the future.

It might be an option to look into before you consider abandoning law altogether.
I would love to know how this turned out for you. I’m in the same boat. I’ve been practicing for about 7 years. Moved from a big firm to an in-house role and then back to a boutique. None of those jobs I overly liked. The in-house job was so bad I had to leave within six months and basically jumped at the first firm that would take me... which obviously wasn’t going to work.

I’ve been looking at getting out of law but it’s not elastic easy as they tell you in law school - especially in this economy.

I’m now considering heading back to private practice in a full commission role as well and am excited at the control. I’ve considered opening up my own shop too.

I’m done doing big law. There is no reasonable amount of money that would make me put up with that bull#### again. My GF is an insurance lawyer at a big firm and there is no way I could take what she does with just walking out the door
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Old 12-20-2020, 11:46 AM   #336
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I have made a lot of dumb choices in my life, but I can, with pride and relief, say I never decided to become a lawyer.
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Old 12-20-2020, 12:17 PM   #337
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I love my part-time job which is a freelance 3D artist for a video game company but I hate my day job which is a graphic designer at a college. The only thing really keeping me from quitting is I would lose all of my benefits and I'm not guaranteed the money I'm making.
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Old 12-20-2020, 12:30 PM   #338
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I have made a lot of dumb choices in my life, but I can, with pride and relief, say I never decided to become a lawyer.
You are joking though, right?
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Old 12-20-2020, 12:33 PM   #339
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You are joking though, right?
No, I am so glad I never decided to go down that route.
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Old 12-20-2020, 12:42 PM   #340
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No, I am so glad I never decided to go down that route.
I was more curious how you acquired a sense of pride from not having a certain career. Seems humorous to me.
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