Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community
Old 05-03-2019, 03:34 AM   #1
gvitaly
Scoring Winger
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Exp:
Default Sean Monahanís biggest offseason

He is only 24. He took a huge step in the first half of the season, and still ended up beating his career year by 18 points.

This is all nice and good, but where did he disappear in the second half of the season? My answer is he didnít, the Flamesí transition game did. A lot of the first lineís offense was from gaining the offensive zone with speed and/or creating odd man rush opportunities. It in turn created the exact same effect the Colorado series had on the Flames. Teams would back up, and give pucks away by dumping them in after defending. They would do it because they were tired, and defenders were backing off trying to play mistake free hockey. The problem I have with that sort of hockey is that itís Gulutzan hockey. Every mistake is so much more meaningful, and so much more deflating to the team when you try to be perfect. What broke the Flames in both the Anaheim series and the Avs series was momentum, once they Flames lost it they couldnít get it back.

Back to Monahan, can he be better? Absolutely! Monahan lacks speed, physicality, a mean streak, and a bit of defensive awareness. Judging from Conroyís comments he will be working most of the summer on his skating, and I donít have any doubt it will be much improved because of the type of person he is. Of course there is a measure of speculation on my part, but he is a guy that just shrugged off rehab after 4 surgeries last off season. He did it and he got better. As far as a mean streak, well thatís just not the type of player he is. He is just too nice of a guy to punch someone in the face with any sort of consistency. As far as physical play, he can hold his own as long as he doesnít let defenders off the hook and finishes checks. In terms of defensive awareness, he is getting better. He took strides in that department this year, by playing against the other teams first lines for part of the season. There is definitely a lot to work on though.

One thing is for certain, in order to find out what we really have in Monahan(and to an extant in Gaudreau) is to split him from Gaudreau for a few games. There were several experiments, but neither has lasted for more than a couple of periods or a game. I think that with a good offseason both Monahan and Gaudreau will have what it takes to carry their own lines. On the other hand, how often were the Sedins split up? But this management group sure likes the word options when it comes to potential lineups.

Finally, I am sure there are holes in some of the points I made, but I am hoping the discussion would go more towards your thoughts on what Monahan has to do to join the Elite #1 centre club, and does he have it in him in your opinion?
gvitaly is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to gvitaly For This Useful Post:
Old 05-03-2019, 06:17 AM   #2
The Cobra
First Line Centre
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Exp:
Default

I donít think that Monny has what it takes to carry a line, as heís shown no ability to do so in the past. He needs someone to feed him the puck in great scoring areaís to be effective.

Now, there arenít a ton of players that can actually carry a line, so it doesnítít make him garbage.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
The Cobra is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to The Cobra For This Useful Post:
Old 05-03-2019, 07:49 AM   #3
Erick Estrada
Franchise Player
 
Erick Estrada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Fernando Valley
Exp:
Default

Are there 31 centers in the league better than him? I don't think so but his skating and timid style of play gets exposed at times and he's just not a guy that is going to carry a team like Couture, MacKinnon, Getzlaf, etc and he doesn't have the 2-way capabilities of a Bergeron, Barkov, Couturier, etc. He's kind of an outlier in that he's a really good finisher that knows how to get in position, has great hands around the net, that is just passable at everything else. At 24 years old there is still time for him to improve at other areas so we should be careful not to write him off because 30 goal centers don't grow on trees and it's less that he's not a great player and more that the Flames are at that stage where to take the next step they need more from him.
Erick Estrada is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Erick Estrada For This Useful Post:
Old 05-03-2019, 07:49 AM   #4
dissentowner
Franchise Player
 
dissentowner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SW Ontario
Exp:
Default

If he can improve his skating and intensity level he could totally be in that group. The problem is that Monahan by nature is not an intense guy so I just can't ever see him bringing that to his game. He can learn to skate better, he can't really change his natural makeup.
dissentowner is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2019, 07:53 AM   #5
manwiches
Powerplay Quarterback
 
manwiches's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Exp:
Default

I think Monahan will be okay this next year. By metrics alone, he's a solid number 1 center. He has his deficiencies, but I would think the fact that he's wears an A, means he is a good influence in the room and has a high give a crap meter. The sting of how they went out will likely sit with him, and hopefully provide some fire. He won't turn into Jonathan Toews, but if he can improve one thing this summer, and that's his skating, I think we'll see the transition game return and less defensive gaffes. Everybody, including me, seem to wonder why he can't find a mean streak to be physical, but I honestly think he's just not that guy, which is fine. If he gets faster, he won't need to be more physical. He can be smarter and get position instead.

One thing that kind of boggles my mind, and I'm sure it's been said before, is why he's not nasty or mean, considering he played high level lacrosse. Lacrosse is such a mean sport, I'm surprised that hasn't translated to his hockey game.

Last edited by manwiches; 05-03-2019 at 08:39 AM.
manwiches is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2019, 08:48 AM   #6
FanIn80
GOAT!
 
FanIn80's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Exp:
Default

A 6’3” 210lbs lacrosse player nominated for the Lady Byng.

Monny has been one of my favourite players since he came into the league, but for the love of God... less Spezza, more Getzlaf.
FanIn80 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to FanIn80 For This Useful Post:
Old 05-03-2019, 08:54 AM   #7
The Cobra
First Line Centre
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Exp:
Default

I assume that young hockey players would have been trying to improve their skating their whole life.

At the age of 24, should we really expect a sudden improvement?

I expect it's his intensity level that really needs to improve.

I seem to recall that one of the reasons Chicago got Hossa (aside from his immense hockey abilities) was to give a good role model for guys like Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook and Sharp to help them learn what it takes to win in the playoffs.

Now Hossa lost the last 2 finals before he got to Chicago, but it wasn't his doing per se, and it takes a lot just to get there. Guys like Toews likely already had it, but I'm guessing Hossa taught those guys how to channel it and use it effectively.

Things like that can click in suddenly, and then, perhaps, everyone starts to buy in. Let's hope that's what happens to Calgary.
The Cobra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2019, 09:35 AM   #8
Erick Estrada
Franchise Player
 
Erick Estrada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Fernando Valley
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cobra View Post
I assume that young hockey players would have been trying to improve their skating their whole life.

At the age of 24, should we really expect a sudden improvement?

I expect it's his intensity level that really needs to improve.

I seem to recall that one of the reasons Chicago got Hossa (aside from his immense hockey abilities) was to give a good role model for guys like Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook and Sharp to help them learn what it takes to win in the playoffs.

Now Hossa lost the last 2 finals before he got to Chicago, but it wasn't his doing per se, and it takes a lot just to get there. Guys like Toews likely already had it, but I'm guessing Hossa taught those guys how to channel it and use it effectively.

Things like that can click in suddenly, and then, perhaps, everyone starts to buy in. Let's hope that's what happens to Calgary.
I think this was the line of thinking that resulted in the additions of Brouwer and Neal.
Erick Estrada is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2019, 09:40 AM   #9
gvitaly
Scoring Winger
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cobra View Post
I assume that young hockey players would have been trying to improve their skating their whole life.

At the age of 24, should we really expect a sudden improvement?

I expect it's his intensity level that really needs to improve.

I seem to recall that one of the reasons Chicago got Hossa (aside from his immense hockey abilities) was to give a good role model for guys like Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook and Sharp to help them learn what it takes to win in the playoffs.

Now Hossa lost the last 2 finals before he got to Chicago, but it wasn't his doing per se, and it takes a lot just to get there. Guys like Toews likely already had it, but I'm guessing Hossa taught those guys how to channel it and use it effectively.

Things like that can click in suddenly, and then, perhaps, everyone starts to buy in. Let's hope that's what happens to Calgary.
I think we could expect an improvement in Monahanís speed, as I assume the last couple of summers he was mostly strengthening his wrist/doing rehab and so on. He was also heavily sheltered in his first couple of years, as a result I think he was working on his release, his shot, and on getting bigger instead of his speed. A lot of speculation on my part, but I prefer to be a glass half full kind of guy.

As far as the Hossa analogy, that was supposed to be James Neal(or Jagr). The click is supposed to come from the players, not from a magic addition of one player.
gvitaly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2019, 09:40 AM   #10
The Cobra
First Line Centre
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick Estrada View Post
I think this was the line of thinking that resulted in the additions of Brouwer and Neal.
I think that is correct, although Brouwer and Neal could never be confused with the immense talent of Marian Hossa.
The Cobra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2019, 09:46 AM   #11
Textcritic
Acerbic Cyberbully
 
Textcritic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: back in Chilliwack
Exp:
Default Sean Monahanís biggest offseason

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cobra View Post
I donít think that Monny has what it takes to carry a line, as heís shown no ability to do so in the past. He needs someone to feed him the puck in great scoring areaís to be effective.

Now, there arenít a ton of players that can actually carry a line, so it doesnítít make him garbage.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
It hasnít happened often, but the few games Gaudreau has missed with injuries Monahan has played just fine in his absence. On the flip-side, when Monahan was shut down last year both Gaudreau and Michael Ferland disappeared completely.

Monahan is much more important to the top-lineís success than many seem to notice. I think he would fare well carrying his own line, but I also donít see any good reason to split the Flamesís best offensive threats. Gaudreau and Monahan thrive off of one another, and neither one is the same without the other.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
Dealing with Everything from Dead Sea Scrolls to Red C Trolls

Quote:
Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
"The Lying Pen of Scribes" Ancient Manuscript Forgeries Project

Last edited by Textcritic; 05-03-2019 at 09:49 AM.
Textcritic is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Textcritic For This Useful Post:
Old 05-03-2019, 10:00 AM   #12
TOfan
Powerplay Quarterback
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Exp:
Default

I've been thinking about Monahan quite a bit lately, like many. Although the numbers speak for themself, point totals growing culminating in a career high this year, has Monahan taken any significant steps forward in his game over the past 2-3 years?

On one hand the answer is obvious, look at the point totals, dummy. But there's much more to it.

I think an apt comparison is Bo Horvat. Both are the same age, same position, drafted close to one another, and play similar roles on their teams. From an offensive standpoint, I'd say Monahan was dealt the better hand by having Gaudreau on his wing for the majority of his career to date. Coming out of the draft, I felt the Flames selected the right guy.

That said, I would have to say Horvat is on a much steeper trajectory. His game has taken strides forward in many areas, and now that he has some support, he's likely to continue to improve. He's becoming, or has become,a play driving C.

Monahan strikes me as a player who has plateaued. For the Flames to improve he must focus on other parts of his game. Finding room in the slot is not enough. He's not going to become a physically imposing player, although he has the size to, but he must improve his skating and play away from the puck.

At this point in time, I would have to say Horvat is the more valuable of the two. This is disappointing because it seems as though this is result of one player being able to identify areas of improvement and doing it, while the other seems complacent.
TOfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2019, 10:20 AM   #13
VilleN
Scoring Winger
 
VilleN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

The thing about Monahan is that he's not a dynamic player, like a Mackinnon, Crosby, Couture etc. There is only really one scenario when Monahan has the puck on his stick that other teams are afraid of him: in the slot. If Monahan has the puck anywhere else on the ice I'm never sitting at home thinking "Look out, Monny is about to make a big play". It's just not the type of player he is, and that won't change.

I like Monahan. He puts up big numbers, and is typically a very clutch player. I don't put much of the blame on him for the failure in the playoffs. The whole team was absolutely awful, and Monahan is not a gamebreaker. If we're not in the offensive zone with action around the net, there really is nothing for Monny to do.

Monahan isn't magically going to become a centre who dictates play. Against Colorado we couldn't gain the zone and create havoc around the net. Monahan isn't the guy that dictates that type of play and pace, but he is one of the best at capitalizing off of it.
VilleN is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to VilleN For This Useful Post:
Old 05-03-2019, 10:26 AM   #14
Inglewood Jack
First Line Centre
 
Inglewood Jack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FanIn80 View Post
A 6í3Ē 210lbs lacrosse player nominated for the Lady Byng.

Monny has been one of my favourite players since he came into the league, but for the love of God... less Spezza, more Getzlaf.
Spezza was excellent at controlling the puck and the offensive zone in his heyday. he's largely responsible for Heatley turning into that One-T Clapper guy during his stint in Ottawa, as all he had to do was glide around with his stick in the air waiting for Spezza to dish. I would be absolutely thrilled if Monahan gained the ability to possess the puck that way.

can anyone think of an example where a centre with marginal puck carrying skill was able to significantly improve that ability in his mid-20's? I had always assumed that's something you come into the league with, but it would make me feel a lot better if there was even a small chance it could happen.
Inglewood Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2019, 10:32 AM   #15
Hot_Flatus
First Line Centre
 
Hot_Flatus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Uranus
Exp:
Default

If you look at it in a vacuum, sure, he's a decent offensive player. But a centre, especially in an offensive or top line role, needs to contribute to driving the play, creating time and space etc. They also need to be adept at handling other teams top centre's, another thing he doesn't really do.

Monahan is a passable centre that leave a heck of a lot to be desired. A guy that really isn't going to drag or be dragged into any kind of a battle. Even so, he can still be effective if he's assertive and taking charge of the middle of the ice. The problem is, he's just not very good at doing it when the games matter or the intensity ratchets up every season. Butter soft.
__________________
I hate to tell you this, but Iíve just launched an air biscuit

Last edited by Hot_Flatus; 05-03-2019 at 10:34 AM.
Hot_Flatus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2019, 10:41 AM   #16
Phaneufenstein
Powerplay Quarterback
 
Phaneufenstein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Jah Chalgary
Exp:
Default

Hockey is not static science, you can have good games and bad games. You can have hot streaks and cold streaks. You can have great seasons and poor playoffs. Every year is different though.

Monahan had 4 goals in 4 games against the Ducks in 2017 (age 22) and 6 points in 11 games in 2015 (age 20).
Yes, he was not good these playoffs just like the rest of the top line which combined for 5 points in 5 games. I think they will have a better showing next year.

You're not going to dramatically change a player from what he's been his entire career.
There just isn't that many examples of people transforming their games drastically especially after making the NHL. If he can improve on technical skills that are lacking like skating, he will be just fine.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Champion View Post
The Oilers don't need a Giordano. They have a glut of him.
Phaneufenstein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2019, 10:43 AM   #17
mrdonkey
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Exp:
Default

I donít blame Monahan for the Flames sucking out loud in the playoffs (again). Thatís on the entire team and coaching staff for allowing one player to completely dictate the series. But he certainly showed what kind of player he is post-ASB, and Iím not convinced this team ever wins anything if heís the best centre on the roster.

Unfortunately Iím not even sure thatís a problem this team can solve without a proper tear-down rebuild where they end up drafting that player.
mrdonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2019, 10:48 AM   #18
442scotty
Powerplay Quarterback
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Exp:
Default

Monahans lack of speed is a direct result of playing with Gaudreau.
442scotty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2019, 11:21 AM   #19
Yoho
Franchise Player
 
Yoho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Chestermere
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 442scotty View Post
Monahans lack of speed is a direct result of playing with Gaudreau.
That makes sense.
Yoho is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2019, 11:22 AM   #20
VladtheImpaler
Franchise Player
 
VladtheImpaler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Bergeron or O'Reilly aren't much more (if any) dynamic than Monahan, and not much faster. They just commit to playing hard, playing 200' and being great at FO. Monahan can do that if he wants to. Treliving and Peters need to have a good read on that. If they think he won't, then Treliving needs to find a real #1C, whether by trading Monahan or finding someone to slot ahead of him (easier said than done).
__________________
Cordially as always,
Vlad the Impaler

Please check out http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthr...94#post3726494

VladtheImpaler is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to VladtheImpaler For This Useful Post:
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:37 PM.

Calgary Flames
2017-18




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2016