Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community
Old 04-18-2017, 11:37 AM   #821
Vinny01
Franchise Player
 
Vinny01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: CGY
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IliketoPuck View Post
This.

Let your best players decide the games, not your worst.

The flames are losing this series for two reasons.

1. Elliott has been awful.

2. Gulutzan is not playing his best players enough.
This was a common complaint Canucks fans made in 2015 where Gulutzan was an assistant
Vinny01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2017, 11:37 AM   #822
TheyCallMeBruce
Likes Cartoons
 
TheyCallMeBruce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFlameDog View Post
Some of you have short memories...yes, Wideman can and has been much worse than bartkowski.
I'm not disputing the fact that Wideman hasn't been good. And yes, I agree he's been much worse during the regular season, but at this point I would be incline to say he can't be worse after last night's performance by bartkowski. Bart was pretty much victimized the same way in those plays as Wideman has been in the past. Why not bring a fresh body and see where it goes? I think if something isn't working for 3 games, it's time to make some changes (and really, this isn't THAT drastic of a change).
__________________
Visit my gaming channel!
TheyCallMeBruce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2017, 11:39 AM   #823
VANFLAMESFAN
Franchise Player
 
VANFLAMESFAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: North Vancouver, BC
Exp:
Default

not sure if already posted here, but this is nuts:


Last time there were 4OT’s on same night was April 10/85

On that night the Flames led the Jets 4-1 in the 2nd period and they lost 5-4 in OT

Randy Carlyle played for that Jets team, 1A in the game
VANFLAMESFAN is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to VANFLAMESFAN For This Useful Post:
Old 04-18-2017, 11:40 AM   #824
redforever
Franchise Player
 
redforever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IliketoPuck View Post
I present to you the reason we are losing the series:

Anaheim goals in game 1:



Goal #1: Engelland can't tie up his man, we get scored on in the first 90 seconds.
Goal #2: Engelland and Bartkowski go for a fun line change.
Goal #3: Bouma in the box for a stupid penalty + Elliott gets beat under the arm.

Anaheim goals in game 2:



Goal #1: Bartkowski, Engelland, Elliott. For some reason we start the game with our worst defense pairing, and get scored on in the first 90 seconds.
Goal #2: Elliott gets beat on a wraparound. Can't happen.
Goal #3: Bouma, Elliott. Elliott gets beat by a muffin, Bouma deflects it because he is in poor position.

Anaheim goals in game 3:



Goal #1: Bouma and Elliott. 4th line gets caught up ice. Bouma stops skating at the Anaheim blue line and coasts back. Stajan loses gets beat to the net by Perry. Elliott kicks a massive rebound from the half boards into the slot.
Goal #2: Elliott lets in a muffin with less than a minute from the half boards.
Goal #3: Engelland and Bartkowski are on the ice inexplicably with less than ten minutes to go.
Goal #4: Engelland and Bartkowski are on the ice inexplicably with less than five minutes to go.
Goal #5: Elliott chips a rebound of a harmless half boards shot into the slot and banks it off our own player.


So there you have it folks. Pretty common theme throughout. Engelland and Bartkowski are getting absolutely victimized this series. Our fourth line is getting dominated. Our goalie can't stop a puck.

Two out of three of those things can be controlled by Gulutzan.

But he insists on playing our third pairing and fourth line an inexcusably high amount. Couple that with the terrible goal tending by Elliott, and we are full marks for where we are at 0-3.
I'd give a pass to Engelland.
redforever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2017, 11:40 AM   #825
TheyCallMeBruce
Likes Cartoons
 
TheyCallMeBruce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VANFLAMESFAN View Post
not sure if already posted here, but this is nuts:


Last time there were 4OT’s on same night was April 10/85

On that night the Flames led the Jets 4-1 in the 2nd period and they lost 5-4 in OT

Randy Carlyle played for that Jets team, 1A in the game
And then 4 years later we won the cup. Prophetic.
__________________
Visit my gaming channel!
TheyCallMeBruce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2017, 11:40 AM   #826
polak
In the Sin Bin
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Exp:
Default

Did GG say anything note worthy after the game?
polak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2017, 11:41 AM   #827
EldrickOnIce
Franchise Player
 
EldrickOnIce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Chicago
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntingwhale View Post
As bad as the 3rd pairing and 4th lines have been, that's on the coach to not play them more then 10 minutes a game. Other playoff teams shorten the bench and give their top forwards 20+ mins and their top D 25+mins of icetime. GG is obsessed with rolling all the lines all game long. That might work well in various stretches of the regular season when you can afford to do that. But now is not that time. Weak players should be seeing <8 mins and the top guns being ridden hard.
Stajan and Bouma played 8 minutes.
Gaudreau 21 minutes. Monahan, Backlund, Frolik and Tkachuk between 18 and 20 minutes.

Around the league? Backstrom and Oshie 18 minutes. Ovechkin 15 minutes. Marner high for Leafs with 18. There are guys with a lot, like Kane, but forward looks just fine.

Bartkowski and Engelland each played about 15 minutes, and all at 5 v 5. This does seem like more than you want.
EldrickOnIce is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to EldrickOnIce For This Useful Post:
Old 04-18-2017, 11:42 AM   #828
Racki
First Line Centre
 
Racki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by azzarish View Post
Feel absolutely crestfallen. It's not one where you sleep it off and feel better in the morning.
Same here. It's utterly ridiculous that a grown man can be this wiped out emotionally by a damn hockey game. It's pathetic really.
__________________
Racki is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Racki For This Useful Post:
Old 04-18-2017, 11:46 AM   #829
Spinach
Scoring Winger
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Exp:
Default

Hats for Bats.
Spinach is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Spinach For This Useful Post:
Old 04-18-2017, 11:49 AM   #830
rohara66
Powerplay Quarterback
 
rohara66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggy_12 View Post
This one really really stings havent felt this down in quite some time
Last night was right up there with these two:





It hurts.
rohara66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2017, 11:49 AM   #831
Flash Walken
Lifetime Suspension
 
Flash Walken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntingwhale View Post
As bad as the 3rd pairing and 4th lines have been, that's on the coach to not play them more then 10 minutes a game. Other playoff teams shorten the bench and give their top forwards 20+ mins and their top D 25+mins of icetime. GG is obsessed with rolling all the lines all game long. That might work well in various stretches of the regular season when you can afford to do that. But now is not that time. Weak players should be seeing <8 mins and the top guns being ridden hard.
I feel like I must be watching a different game from everyone else. The bottom lines have been decent, even good, the top lines have only produced on the power play, honourable mention to backlund and his shorty.

Gaudreau leads the team in giveaways through 3 games and is a -2.

Through 3 games gaudreau has played basically twice as many minutes as the fourth line, he's played basically a full period more than brouwer.

Just how much time should he be playing at this point?
Flash Walken is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Flash Walken For This Useful Post:
Old 04-18-2017, 11:55 AM   #832
Spinach
Scoring Winger
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohara66 View Post
Last night was right up there with these two:





It hurts.
1990, 1991, 1994 & 1995 all featured heartcrushing, soul-destroying OT games too. In fact, the game winner last night was eerily similar to Ray Whitney's 2OT game-7 goal on the hapless Trevor Kidd.
Spinach is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Spinach For This Useful Post:
Old 04-18-2017, 11:57 AM   #833
PepsiFree
Participant
Participant
 
PepsiFree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IliketoPuck View Post
This.

Let your best players decide the games, not your worst.

2. Gulutzan is not playing his best players enough.
That's weird. Didn't seem to hurt the Ducks last night when Carlyle rolled his lines as usual.

Balanced teams don't just stick McDavid or Kane out there for 30 minutes, especially teams without a McDavid. Rolling lines can (and often is) JUST as successful a strategy as shortening the bench, so let's not pretend every team needs to be like Chicago or Edmonton to have success when they're not close to being the only example.

- Bouma and Stajan clocked in at 8-9 minutes, so did Shaw and Wagner.
- Holzer and Montour were the two lowest Anaheim D at 13 and 20, Bart and Engelland played 14 and 15
- Monahan and Getzlaf each played 20
- Gio, Brodie, Hamilton all played 22-24, so did Bieksa, Lindholm, and Theo

The "isn't playing his best players enough" is just another in a long line of false narratives constructed by people who don't like Gulutzan. He's employing a strategy successfully used by many different coaches in the NHL, one which the Pacific Div Champions and team currently holding a 3-0 series lead (including a late comeback win) uses.

Anaheim has their top 2 D out and their bottom pairing are still playing more than Bart and Eng.
PepsiFree is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to PepsiFree For This Useful Post:
Old 04-18-2017, 12:01 PM   #834
Otto-matic
Franchise Player
 
Otto-matic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sector 7-G
Exp:
Default

I would toss Wideman in for Bart
Lazar in for Bouma
Split Johnny/Mony up.

Start Moose but give him a serious short leash. One flub and yank him.
Otto-matic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2017, 12:01 PM   #835
PeteMoss
Franchise Player
 
PeteMoss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: SW Ontario
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash Walken View Post
I feel like I must be watching a different game from everyone else. The bottom lines have been decent, even good, the top lines have only produced on the power play, honourable mention to backlund and his shorty.

Gaudreau leads the team in giveaways through 3 games and is a -2.

Through 3 games gaudreau has played basically twice as many minutes as the fourth line, he's played basically a full period more than brouwer.

Just how much time should he be playing at this point?
The Gaudreau/Monahan/Ferland line has been one of the best in the league in the playoffs so far by Corsi.
Spoiler!
PeteMoss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2017, 12:03 PM   #836
Igottago
Franchise Player
 
Igottago's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Vancouver
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spinach View Post
1990, 1991, 1994 & 1995 all featured heartcrushing, soul-destroying OT games too. In fact, the game winner last night was eerily similar to Ray Whitney's 2OT game-7 goal on the hapless Trevor Kidd.
Pretty much the entire playoff experience as a Flames fan has been soul crushing. I'm lucky enough to remember the 89 cup win but how sad is it that for many of us our best memory is the year the Flames went to the finals and lost?
__________________
A few weeks after crashing head-first into the boards (denting his helmet and being unable to move for a little while) following a hit from behind by Bob Errey, the Calgary Flames player explains:

"I was like Christ, lying on my back, with my arms outstretched, crucified"
-- Frank Musil - Early January 1994
Igottago is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Igottago For This Useful Post:
Old 04-18-2017, 12:05 PM   #837
Textcritic
Acerbic Cyberbully
 
Textcritic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: back in Chilliwack
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash Walken View Post
I feel like I must be watching a different game from everyone else. The bottom lines have been decent, even good, the top lines have only produced on the power play, honourable mention to backlund and his shorty.

Gaudreau leads the team in giveaways through 3 games and is a -2.

Through 3 games gaudreau has played basically twice as many minutes as the fourth line, he's played basically a full period more than brouwer.

Just how much time should he be playing at this point?
Yeah, I would tend to agree. These playoff games have been an unfortunate exclamation point on what has been a pretty disappointing season for Gaudreau. I wouldn't be surprised if he just wants to be done with it, spend the summer refocussing and get a fresh start next year.
__________________
Dealing with Everything from Dead Sea Scrolls to Red C Trolls

Quote:
Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
"The Lying Pen of Scribes" Ancient Manuscript Forgeries Project
Textcritic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2017, 12:05 PM   #838
CliffFletcher
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: May 2006
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spinach View Post
1990, 1991, 1994 & 1995 all featured heartcrushing, soul-destroying OT games too. In fact, the game winner last night was eerily similar to Ray Whitney's 2OT game-7 goal on the hapless Trevor Kidd.
That era marked me as a fan. The place in my heart where I should feel hope or disappointment is just a lump of scar tissue.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze View Post
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
CliffFletcher is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to CliffFletcher For This Useful Post:
Old 04-18-2017, 12:06 PM   #839
Hockey_Ninja
 
Hockey_Ninja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: カルガリーとクリーブラン
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBird View Post
We will never win with Johnny quote me on that.. I'll eat pubes if we ever win a cup with him on this team.
Aaaaand new sig
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBird View Post
We will never win with Johnny quote me on that.. I'll eat pubes if we ever win a cup with him on this team.
Hockey_Ninja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2017, 12:17 PM   #840
IliketoPuck
Franchise Player
 
IliketoPuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PepsiFree View Post
That's weird. Didn't seem to hurt the Ducks last night when Carlyle rolled his lines as usual.

Balanced teams don't just stick McDavid or Kane out there for 30 minutes, especially teams without a McDavid. Rolling lines can (and often is) JUST as successful a strategy as shortening the bench, so let's not pretend every team needs to be like Chicago or Edmonton to have success when they're not close to being the only example.

- Bouma and Stajan clocked in at 8-9 minutes, so did Shaw and Wagner.
- Holzer and Montour were the two lowest Anaheim D at 13 and 20, Bart and Engelland played 14 and 15
- Monahan and Getzlaf each played 20
- Gio, Brodie, Hamilton all played 22-24, so did Bieksa, Lindholm, and Theo

The "isn't playing his best players enough" is just another in a long line of false narratives constructed by people who don't like Gulutzan. He's employing a strategy successfully used by many different coaches in the NHL, one which the Pacific Div Champions and team currently holding a 3-0 series lead (including a late comeback win) uses.

Anaheim has their top 2 D out and their bottom pairing are still playing more than Bart and Eng.
Right.

But Montour & Holzer =/= Engelland & Bartkowski.

And further, it doesn't matter at all how the Ducks deploy their roster. It matters how the Flames deploy theirs, because those are the horses you have in the race.

The evidence is pretty damning that the bottom half of our roster, and their over use, is a key contributing factor to why we are down three games to zero.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't be playing our bottom pairing and our fourth line. They need to be played. But they need to be played in such a way that they don't get repeatedly victimized.

Literally go back and look at each goal the ducks have scored this series.

I am not constructing a false narrative.

I've constructed why we are losing, and backed it up with video evidence.

Elliott can't make a save. Reason #1.

Our third pairing and fourth line is reason #2.
__________________
Pylon on the Edmonton Oilers:

"I am actually more excited for the Oilers game tomorrow than the Flames game. I am praying for multiple jersey tosses. The Oilers are my new favourite team for all the wrong reasons. I hate them so much I love them."
IliketoPuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:50 AM.

Calgary Flames
2017-18




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2016