North American Tipping Culture vs the Rest of the World

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

Restaurants and bars, cabs and Uber, haircuts...all get tipped. Everyone else take a hike. (I don’t know if I’ve missed someone. I haven’t used grocery deliveries to my car, Skip the Dishes, etc.).

And poker.

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

There is already the option to donate your tax return to help pay down the debt. I assume only morons tick that box.

Would be good if you could do that if you owed.

[GGG]

A simple change to tax withholding and income reporting could get rid of this issue for most of the industry. Require all tips paid electronically to be reported as income and have withholding tax applied.

Instead the current system allows for tips to be paid out as cash at the end of a shift and no withholding applied. This is incentivized for the employer because they don’t have to pay the employer portions of cpp or EI on these funds

[tripin_billie]

Totally ok with tipping going away, but if you're down in the States, please remember that servers in most states are paid a sub-minimum wage of $2.13. I believe most of the west coast state minimum wages are higher and don't allow the employer to take the tip credit, but Federally it is still this ridiculous low amount. The employer has to make the wages up if the server fails to make the Federal minimum which is $7.25. This however is hard to enforce.

Long story short, stop tipping all you want in Canada, but when travelling, it's always good to know what the system is otherwise you might be really screwing someone over.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by GGG

The one thing to remember is that restaurants will have a tip out at somewhere between 4-8% of bill total. If you tip zero your server has to pay from their other tips to make up the amount. So I don’t think it’s is reasonable to go to zero in restaurants.

Unless there is a sign posted or a mandatory tip required I would say that’s the cost of doing business.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I'm willing to bet that >85% of servers, waitresses, bartenders, etc. that receive compensation in the form of tips fail to report true earnings. I bet they all report like 10-20% less than received and pocket the remainder.

Anecdotally, this is what I've heard from anybody that I've ever known that works in that space when it comes up in conversation.

For that reason alone society should migrate to the whole 'bake it into the price and eliminate tipping' thing. These people don't just get the 10-20% tips, they get a (sizeable?) portion of income un-taxed, and I'm doubting the CRA has the resources to audit every Tom, Dick and Harry in the service industry across Canada.

Hey- we raised minimum wages, time to contribute all you make to taxes like the rest of us. It sucks, doesn't it?

Maybe before, but now with everything being digital, I find it hard to believe that's the case. Don't most servers make their tips on a paycheck? It's not like they are taking money out of the till at the end of the night like the old days.

[Barnet Flame]

The last time I was in Australia, I went to leave a tip after our meal.

My in-laws said not to unless I felt the service was above and beyond.

I thought that was a bit mean, so I asked why? They explained that the minimum wage is way more generous than that in the UK.

The minimum wage there is just under $19 p/h. One of the benefits of a higher minimum wage ought to be to take out or significantly reduce the need or obligation to top up wages of those providing a service to you.

I would hazard a guess that at $15 ph in Alberta would count as a reasonable minimum wage but that the culture of tipping, both in terms of when and how much to tip hasn’t yet caught up with economic reality.

[DoubleF]

I know a guy who keeps $2 bills in his wallet. If he gets crappy services, he leaves one of those behind. His argument was that the $2 bill as a tip was something as surprising, valueless and disappointing as the service he received. I don't think I've ever seen him leave a $2 behind before. I think he keeps it as his alternative to zero tipping.

[Bleeding Red]

I served in restaurants for 12 years. I come from a restaurant family - once added up to over 300 years of combined restaurant experience.

Tipping is a horrible practice. It brings out the worst in people - customers & servers alike. Study after study shows tipping is a bigoted practice (younger Caucasian women get tipped the most, Male servers of colour tipped the least, etc). Customers become very judgemental, complaining about the smallest thing. Servers treat customers differently based on perception of what a customer will tip.

I can't remember how many times I got tipped in pennies, or a customer put a stack of ones on the table and made a show of taking one away if s/he was unhappy. I told a customer to keep their tip more than once - "you need more than I do".

Unfortunately, it will be hard to do away with. Every time I read about a restaurant trying to stop the practice, they ended the experiment less than a year later. As noted in this article about Earl's in CGY, there is more to it than just "pay a living wage and charge more".

Imagine stadium prices everywhere. A burger at Kelsey's averages about $16. Are you prepared to pay $20 for that same burger if you don't have to tip? Would you eat out more or less if the average cost (in a casual restaurant) was $35 per person? Would you pay $10 for a bottle of domestic beer? $10 for a pint?

I've no idea how to change this culture. I really recommend googling the TEDTalks on tipping.

(And, sure enough, after 4 restaurants and selling out of the family chain, now all my family (with 2 exceptions) are out of the restaurant business.)

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

I served in restaurants for 12 years. I come from a restaurant family - once added up to over 300 years of combined restaurant experience.

Tipping is a horrible practice. It brings out the worst in people - customers & servers alike. Study after study shows tipping is a bigoted practice (younger Caucasian women get tipped the most, Male servers of colour tipped the least, etc). Customers become very judgemental, complaining about the smallest thing. Servers treat customers differently based on perception of what a customer will tip.

I can't remember how many times I got tipped in pennies, or a customer put a stack of ones on the table and made a show of taking one away if s/he was unhappy. I told a customer to keep their tip more than once - "you need more than I do".

Unfortunately, it will be hard to do away with. Every time I read about a restaurant trying to stop the practice, they ended the experiment less than a year later. As noted in this article about Earl's in CGY, there is more to it than just "pay a living wage and charge more".

Imagine stadium prices everywhere. A burger at Kelsey's averages about $16. Are you prepared to pay $20 for that same burger if you don't have to tip? Would you eat out more or less if the average cost (in a casual restaurant) was $35 per person? Would you pay $10 for a bottle of domestic beer? $10 for a pint?

I've no idea how to change this culture. I really recommend googling the TEDTalks on tipping.

(And, sure enough, after 4 restaurants and selling out of the family chain, now all my family (with 2 exceptions) are out of the restaurant business.)

Thats pretty much why tipping is still around, at least here in Alberta. If they removed it and raised prices no one will go. And servers won't work at that restaurant.

See: Earls downtown when it re-opened.

[AltaGuy]

One of the more amusing things about removing tipping and raising prices is that poor tippers who are merely cheap realize quickly that they've been subsidized by good tippers for their whole lives.

Many good tippers will see their costs actually lower.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

Imagine stadium prices everywhere. A burger at Kelsey's averages about $16. Are you prepared to pay $20 for that same burger if you don't have to tip? Would you eat out more or less if the average cost (in a casual restaurant) was $35 per person? Would you pay $10 for a bottle of domestic beer? $10 for a pint?

It would be like every other business in the world where revenue needs to be calculated vs your cost of operations.
If you won't get enough revenue because you're pricing is too high, dont start that business.

The whole tipping is needed for the restaurant to stay in business is BS started by the industry to keep their labour costs down. Its unfair and no other industry gets to play that card when calculating their costs of operation.

Look at their lease costs on the premise, supply costs, fixturing costs for building out the space. Like every business, they should be looking at these, plus labour costs and determining what they'd need to sell a burger at to be profitable.

If you need to charge more for your burger than the market would pay, you're doing it wrong.

[Bleeding Red]

For this thread I am assuming A) an already going concern (not a new business) and B) that all the other costs remain static. I was looking at it as though one aspect of your costs suddenly went up a heavy percentage.

The large corps - Keg, Kelseys, Earls, BP - have worked it all out to last possible decimal point - exact amount of cheese per pizza, how many croutons per salad, etc. They would likely have to recalculate a lot of things if their labour cost suddenly went up 15%. Most restaurants would cut staff first rather than increase prices.

Of course anyone looking to open a restaurant needs to take all the costs into consideration and work out revenue / charging points. I have no idea what the margins are on food items.

I haven't read of anyone arguing that restaurants need tipping to remain open. The main reason cited for restaurant closings is high rent. I'm not sure where the idea of a lower minimum wage for servers came from, but wouldn't be surprised if there was some lobby behind it.

An example outside the restaurant industry could be hairdressers. The House of Lords saw their taxes shoot up over 50% (property was assessed based on "best Usage", which was as a condo, rather than what it was actually used for) and the owner decided that after 30+ years to close the doors. He would have had to increase his prices too much to cover the costs. He probably could have handled the moderate cost rise if he had to end tipping.

For the longest time more restaurants closed than new ones opened and I am sure mismanagement, bad food, and high rent had more to do with closures than labour costs.

[Kswiss]

I am in the group that dont go out as much because of tipping. I find it absolutely absurd that an already expensive bill "has" to have an extra 15% on it every time. Tipping is no longer about service I find. It is just an expected added cost. Entitlement at its finest. It should and always be about the service or nothing at all.

It is even more absurd when the automatic prompt says 18%. I boycott those places immediately.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by GGG

The one thing to remember is that restaurants will have a tip out at somewhere between 4-8% of bill total. If you tip zero your server has to pay from their other tips to make up the amount. So I don’t think it’s is reasonable to go to zero in restaurants.

Who cares? Why is that the customer's problem? We collectively need to stop tipping pretty much ever. Right now it is just a guilt thing. Our culture needs to change.

[Kswiss]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Who cares? Why is that the customer's problem? We collectively need to stop tipping pretty much ever. Right now it is just a guilt thing. Our culture needs to change.

It is truly about guilt. I hate that. and I agree, why would it be the customers responsibility. I really believe the restaurants that are going to do well are the ones that have that "lower tip" mentality like Nandos, Noodle box type restaurants.

[Inglewood Jack]

here's a fun article about hotel room etiquette, with a section about tipping:

https://lifehacker.com/this-is-the-p...oom-1833411570

How much you should tip is debated a lot, but it is determined in part by the cost of the room and how much you had your room cleaned. Land writes:

Tip. ($10/day, per person who stayed) If your stay is multiple days, tip every day you expect cleaning service. Seriously.

this is obviously getting savaged in the article comments. $10 per day per person would work out to $280 in just tips for a family of 4 staying a week. I generally take excellent care of rooms and maybe leave a bit of cash every few days if feeling really generous, but imagine if everyone really tipped cleaning staff like that...some of us would be reconsidering our career choices.

[Fire]

Stupid question, but does the province have the power to ban businesses from accepting tips?

[HockeyIlliterate]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

Imagine stadium prices everywhere. A burger at Kelsey's averages about $16. Are you prepared to pay $20 for that same burger if you don't have to tip? Would you eat out more or less if the average cost (in a casual restaurant) was $35 per person? Would you pay $10 for a bottle of domestic beer? $10 for a pint?

This line of reasoning makes very little sense to me.

Sure, the menu price for a hamburger may be $16, but when you add in the expected tip (let's go with 18% because the server was attentive and accurate with the order--or, more properly, doing their job correctly!), you are effectively already paying $18.88 for the hamburger anyway (or $19, with rounding for those who like only charge whole dollar amounts).

So are you really asking me if I would be prepared to pay $20 for a hamburger that I was effectively already paying about $19 for?

And that the only difference between those two prices is that, in the former, I don't have do this whole "what is the right tip amount so that I don't get judged negatively by the server and can still come back and eat here without worry" thought process at the end of the meal, and in the latter, I can just pay the menu price and eat in peace?

I don't see why anyone wouldn't go with the latter option.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by HockeyIlliterate

This line of reasoning makes very little sense to me.

Sure, the menu price for a hamburger may be $16, but when you add in the expected tip (let's go with 18% because the server was attentive and accurate with the order--or, more properly, doing their job correctly!), you are effectively already paying $18.88 for the hamburger anyway (or $19, with rounding for those who like only charge whole dollar amounts).

So are you really asking me if I would be prepared to pay $20 for a hamburger that I was effectively already paying about $19 for?

And that the only difference between those two prices is that, in the former, I don't have do this whole "what is the right tip amount so that I don't get judged negatively by the server and can still come back and eat here without worry" thought process at the end of the meal, and in the latter, I can just pay the menu price and eat in peace?

I don't see why anyone wouldn't go with the latter option.

I agree with you, and think a lot of others would too, yet in practice, it never works.

Change needs to be across the board for anything to actually happen