Ongoing US Mass Shooting Thread 2

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

You'd be wrong. You wouldn't even be able to open the door based on current information. SWAT couldn't knock it down. It's a big ass steel door made for these exact situations (though obviously intended to prevent the shooter from entering).

The officers weren't the school resource officer but those who had received the call about the grandmother, yet they did exchange gunfire according to some reports.

Allegedly this guy who just bought his guns a week ago was able to get by three armed resources with no body armor and kill a bunch of kids. Something clearly went wrong here.

[mivdo]

That country is broken. Nothing will happen. They will wait for the news cycle to pass and things will be back to normal.

I feel very lucky to live in a country like Canada but hate how american style politics is creeping into this country. Everytime I hear people bring up gun rights here, I cringe. Leave that bull**** down there.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by mivdo

That country is broken. Nothing will happen. They will wait for the news cycle to pass and things will be back to normal.

I feel very lucky to live in a country like Canada but hate how american style politics is creeping into this country. Everytime I hear people bring up gun rights here, I cringe. Leave that bull**** down there.

Kenney creating a Firearms Office position for Alberta, with the goal to pester Ottawa into relaxing our firearms regulations should give plenty of Albertans reason to question why this is a priority of our government. Hopefully that's on the list of cuts for whoever governs us next. Worse than a waste of money, it will make us less safe.

[burn_this_city]

I guess dressing the cops like Delta Force is more for intimidating the general population than actually stopping active shooter situations.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

You'd be wrong. You wouldn't even be able to open the door based on current information. SWAT couldn't knock it down. It's a big ass steel door made for these exact situations (though obviously intended to prevent the shooter from entering).

Didn't they get into the classroom just by having someone with a key unlock the door? It took 40 minutes to find a staff member? What does it matter how big and heavy the door is when it can be opened by anyone with a key?

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

I guess dressing the cops like Delta Force is more for intimidating the general population than actually stopping active shooter situations.

Yep.

Pretty sad that Police looked to out number parents/on-lookers about 5-1 in the video I watched briefly and did nothing.

Then to hear the Sheriff/Chief come out and say that the "brave men and women of the force prevailed" just an absolute joke.

Best comment I saw on reddit:
Apparently in Texas SWAT stands for “Sit, Wait, Act Tough”

[Lubicon]

Let's keep in mind Uvalde is a city of 15 000. I would be surprised if their police force had a tactical team of any kind. That might also explain why it was a border agent who killed the suspect, they may rely on outside help in situations like this. It might also partially explain why the response was the way it seemed to be.

[Harry Lime]

Isn't this exactly how the system is set up to work? Like a well oiled machine, from the troubled kid to the domestic trauma to the easy access to military arms. To the existing guns in the school, the armed parents and armed officers outside of the school to the armed swat on standby. Useless by design.

[puckedoff]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

Let's keep in mind Uvalde is a city of 15 000. I would be surprised if their police force had a tactical team of any kind. That might also explain why it was a border agent who killed the suspect, they may rely on outside help in situations like this. It might also partially explain why the response was the way it seemed to be.

In the video the cops had machine gun looking things, and there were quite a few of them. Its not like they just had dinky pistols. Very surprised they just didn't do anything in that situation.

[JohnnyB]

They should legislate national requirements for schools to be built with high walls around campus perimeters with guarded and secure gates. Make it part of school building codes going forward and fund building of these for older schools as part of infrastructure bills. Spending on creating jobs while making schools safer seems at least more politically tenable on both sides of the aisle than the gun legislation. Wouldn't be a replacement for gun legislation, but still much better than having school environments themselves where classes are like bunkers and teachers are armed with deadly weapons.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

They should legislate national requirements for schools to be built with high walls around campus perimeters with guarded and secure gates. Make it part of school building codes going forward and fund building of these for older schools as part of infrastructure bills. Spending on creating jobs while making schools safer seems at least more politically tenable on both sides of the aisle than the gun legislation. Wouldn't be a replacement for gun legislation, but still much better than having school environments themselves where classes are like bunkers and teachers are armed with deadly weapons.

Wouldn’t gun buy-backs be cheaper? I’d wait until the economy tanks and people ate desperate for money and will sell their guns at a discount.

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

They should legislate national requirements for schools to be built with high walls around campus perimeters with guarded and secure gates. Make it part of school building codes going forward and fund building of these for older schools as part of infrastructure bills. Spending on creating jobs while making schools safer seems at least more politically tenable on both sides of the aisle than the gun legislation. Wouldn't be a replacement for gun legislation, but still much better than having school environments themselves where classes are like bunkers and teachers are armed with deadly weapons.

Is my sarcasm detector broken or did you just advocate for turning schools into prisons?

[devo22]

high walls, guarded gates ... are we still talking about schools here? The fact that turning schools into fortresses comes up as an option just shows how ####ed the situation really is.

[Cappy]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1529670885770027008

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Cappy

https://twitter.com/user/status/1529670885770027008

That guy is very angry. But...it makes sense.

Its like the Cops just want to power-trip and Cosplay as Army Men than actually do their jobs when needed.

[CPK80]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

They should legislate national requirements for schools to be built with high walls around campus perimeters with guarded and secure gates. Make it part of school building codes going forward and fund building of these for older schools as part of infrastructure bills. Spending on creating jobs while making schools safer seems at least more politically tenable on both sides of the aisle than the gun legislation. Wouldn't be a replacement for gun legislation, but still much better than having school environments themselves where classes are like bunkers and teachers are armed with deadly weapons.

That would be a fun place.

Imagine going to school for the first time, walking through a secure checkpoint, to sit in your class room where the windows look onto brick walls. That would excite me to want to go back everyday and learn.

Because we know treating students like prisoners would have the best outcomes.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by CPK80

That would be a fun place.

Imagine going to school for the first time, walking through a secure checkpoint, to sit in your class room where the windows look onto brick walls. That would excite me to want to go back everyday and learn.

Because we know treating students like prisoners would have the best outcomes.

It would do wonders for their mental health though!

They could all get School Issued Jumpsuits, School Issued Lunches, bullying would not be tolerated unless its from the teachers.

The would Pledge Allegiance at the beginning of each class. Not just the beginning of the day, each class!

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Cappy

https://twitter.com/user/status/1529670885770027008

That's the same population as Canmore. Does Canmore need a SWAT team, too? What a ridiculous country.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

That's the same population as Canmore. Does Canmore need a SWAT team, too? What a ridiculous country.

To take out the bears? Yes.

[JohnnyB]

In my experience in East Asia it's common to have high school walls around the entire perimeter of the school grounds and just one or two gates with guards offices there to control who comes in and out throughout the day along with security cameras around school grounds. You find this in some private schools here in Canada too where security of the students is a higher concern.

The result is that security is fairly tight entering or exiting school grounds (no wandering off campus with friends during lunch break as I always did growing up), but inside the school grounds doors aren't kept locked and recently built/renovated schools classrooms often have large windows onto school hallways and large windows in the doors themselves to maximize visibility into classrooms. You can have a really open, safe and free environment inside. I can't imagine having to give up that kind of free, open, safe school campus environment in a primary school for locked doors, restricted movement or bunker-styled classrooms as apparently already is the case with some US schools.

After some high-profile school stabbings while I was in China, government required increased security at schools nationally, and some primary schools or kindergartens I would visit had guards in full riot armor at the gates with very restrictive access for anyone other than staff. This was kind of jarring, but at least the inside of school grounds could still be kept as safe environments for kids unaffected by fear. That safe school environment where educators and kids can purely focus on learning was sacred and protected.

Improving perimeter security with walls, gates, and guards obviously wouldn't be a replacement for gun legislation, but while that intractable issue remains intractable it would at least seem a better long-term initiative than having generations of kids growing up in schools with paranoid policies such as locked steel classroom doors and teachers armed with guns. That's not what schools should be.