Arena negotiation discussion. UPD: Flames release their proposal

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by TopChed

You don't think the popular opinion influences the city councilors? Especially with them timing this public debate right before a municipal election? If Calgarians were completely on the side of the Flames, they would have much more leverage to work with in their negotiations. As it stands, there isn't a lot they can work with.

I doubt people would vote out a city council member just to get an arena built. council doesn't have anything worry about, even if everyone loved the flames proposal and were desperate for a new rink/CalgaryNext.

I also doubt if the percentage of eligible voters who actually vote will be over 35%

even being generous, I don't see how you can say public opinion should be a top priority. it's a very small consideration, at best.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by EM11

Ken King is such a clown. Everyone knows he's a mouth piece, but he's a bad one.

It's hard to believe he was making hockey decisions until pretty recently. This gives you some insight into how things got done.

Send Conroy in. He can reach a deal.

Lol, send in Conroy first, butter everybody up.

If they can't come to a deal, bring in McGrattan.


Better than having King trying to do this. Id at least get behind those two.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Freeway

FWIW, easily the most media I've seen at the 'Dome in seven years of training camps. Not even close.

Great job today.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

King is such a tool. Hard to agree with anything the Flames say when this smug, bumbling chump represents them.

I get the impression King thinks there are two kinds of people in this city:

1) The affluent executive types he glad-hands on the golf course. These are the people he expects to buy up the luxury boxes at a new arena. They don't need to be told the score when it comes to this kind of negotiation.

2) The credulous rubes who read the Sun, aka "Martha and Joe." He's trying to exploit their devotion to the Flames in order to put pressure on city hall. And if they don't get onboard, they need to be scolded like stubborn children.

Most Calgarians are neither. They don't have memberships at the Glencoe Club, but they also don't like being talked down to. Which is why I expect most Calgarians find his way of expressing himself insufferably patronizing and off-putting.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Regarding the possibility of relocation, I know two of the owners personally, one in particular since I was a kid, with close family ties (and many posters are aware of the connection). They have deep historical roots in the community and as King said are extremely charitable and generous. You only need to look at the foundations and causes they have started and supported, all of which are local and benefit Calgarians greatly (I can provide links).

I know for a fact these owners would be devastated to see the Flames leave Calgary.

that's nice.

if it was the case that love of the community is so important to them, then why haven't they compromised on a fair deal for ALL sides.
also, why is King still out there helping shred their reputation?

as fans are constantly told, it's business. So who cares how sad and devastated the owners would be if they were "forced" to do move the team. the average fan sure shouldn't care about them.

besides, if they love the community they have such strong ties too, shouldn't they still be charitable if the hockey team wasn't here to make them money?

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

They are talking about this again on the FAN960, but maybe this is where there is still room for this process to move forward. IF the team does actually release the details and renderings of their arena as promised for next week this could quickly set a tonne more pressure on the city.

The city isn't going to be under any more pressure after the Flames release a rendering - CSEC wants an Edmonton style deal. They want to redevelop the West Village. The city has no interest in that. The city has a place for their new building, and both sides can give a bit on their positions with regard to money.

Make a deal based on that framework, or stop holding press conferences.

[harmony]

CSEC are a bunch of ####ing crooks. they want the city to build them the building, pay for all the maintenance and upkeep and taxes, while they reap all the ####ing revenue?

it's absurd that the city should be giving a penny to these billionaires.

[Par]

Originally Posted by belsarius

The threat of leaving is just so hollow. If the Flames organization left Calgary there would be half a dozen owners in line to move their team to this market with that arena deal. Or even more likely they would get expansion money for a new team to come in. You want to own an NHL team and one of the strongest markets is left wide open, you jump on that.. if someone can make Winnipeg work, someone will fill the void here before this organization has even finished packing.

The NHL is a cartel and they work together, so they will not send a NHL team to Calgary for at least 5 years if the Flames left. Calgary is a very good market but not the strongest, that title belongs to Toronto and the surrounding areas(Hamilton mostly.)

Ken King should have not done this presser, they should have just released a statement, stating their position and should have said that we will release our proposal next week.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by harmony

CSEC are a bunch of ####ing crooks. they want the city to build them the building, pay for all the maintenance and upkeep and taxes, while they reap all the ####ing revenue?

it's absurd that the city should be giving a penny to these billionaires.

It's easier to have a debate when people don't misrepresent the two sides' positions.

[You Need a Thneed]

I typed this out on Reddit, but I'll repost it here - regarding any talk of CalgaryNEXT:

CalgaryNEXT was dead on the day it was announced. It's literally impossible to make that proposal work in that location with that financing structure.

The city spent several months doing studies, and concluded that on top of the $890 million building cost, there would be about $500 million in directly related costs (land, moving roadways, land cleanup, etc), AND another $500 million in indirect costs (additional costs to get other land in the area ready for the redevelopment that would have to happen to pay for the facility cost, etc). The remaining land to redevelop wasn't very large, or prime land, because the CalgaryNEXT facility was so big. All the while, the sports groups who would have stake in the field house portion, had hesitations on availability of the facility, etc.

It was a TERRIBLE proposal that should have had Ken King fired on the spot.

[Looch City]

This is the greatest, I haven't laughed this much in a while. Ken King you are a joke.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

Right after saying "I think we can all agree on that" too.

Such a hateable personality.

Willy Loman.

[TheKurgan]

The best thing about this whole shirt show is at least it has become a pressing issue for city hall. Hopefully this well speed up the process that had seemed to be stalled indefinitely.

[harmony]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It's easier to have a debate when people don't misrepresent the two sides' positions.

fact of the matter is, it's a travesty that these billionaires are trying to steal from the city.

[tkflames]

Step 1: Fire this bumbling idiot.

Step 2: One of the owners steps in, agrees to the 1/3 deal with tax incentives that recover 66% of the cities investment via tax and an extra 50% via the surrounding revitalization taxes (including maybe flames central part 2). Nenshi can sell this model as a positive return of investment and the flames get tax subsidies.

Step 3: Owner looks like a hero among the common folk.

Step 4: Introduce a new president/CEO. Would not be surprised if this a Burke type.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Most Calgarians are neither. They don't have memberships at the Glencoe Club, but they also don't like being talked down to. Which is why I expect most Calgarians find his way of expressing himself insufferably patronizing and off-putting.

Someone gif that dog head nod. The one King did before the arena blueprint question gets asked.

That there is KK public image right now.

[greyshep]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

I typed this out on Reddit, but I'll repost it here - regarding any talk of CalgaryNEXT:

CalgaryNEXT was dead on the day it was announced. It's literally impossible to make that proposal work in that location with that financing structure.

The city spent several months doing studies, and concluded that on top of the $890 million building cost, there would be about $500 million in directly related costs (land, moving roadways, land cleanup, etc), AND another $500 million in indirect costs (additional costs to get other land in the area ready for the redevelopment that would have to happen to pay for the facility cost, etc). The remaining land to redevelop wasn't very large, or prime land, because the CalgaryNEXT facility was so big. All the while, the sports groups who would have stake in the field house portion, had hesitations on availability of the facility, etc.

It was a TERRIBLE proposal that should have had Ken King fired on the spot.

[Backlunds_socks]

I'd love to see a poll if people are in favor for the 1/3 split or want the city to put in more or less.

Unfortunately the results would be skewed by the non-Calgarian Flames fans

[ZedMan]

Originally Posted by Backlunds_socks

Unfortunately the results would be skewed by the non-Calgarian Flames fans

Are there really that many on here?

[Backlunds_socks]

dp