Ongoing Sci-Fi, Comic Book Movie Thread v2

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I will state after watching parts of the movie, that Wiig and McCarthy kind of bore me in big screen movies. They play the same character in every single movie. When I see Wiig's name as a main actor, I pretty much say, here she comes playing the mousy socially awkward with a touch of smark character.


I'd really like to see her stretch out and try something different. She was really good in the NASA movie as a background character. Hidden Numbers or something like that.

Totally agree, I blame improve. Instead of writing jokes they just put improve actors in front a camera and have them riff. It's fine here and there but so many movies rely on it almost solely for their comedy.

Kristen Wiig was good in Welcome to Me. Although she does play an awkward person, but it's different than her typical role.

[Locke]

I dont like Kristen Wiig, but I cant say she did a bad job. If I were pressed I would say that the worst actor in the movie was Pedro Pascal....but look at what he had to work with...

That movie was just a mess.

[CaptainCrunch]

Does anyone think that maybe PJ out clever ed herself in writing this. I mean its clear that she wanted an evil Trump figure from the 80's. The Wish stone thing was supposed to be a heavy handed illustration of Trump cheating or being out of touch with reality or something like that. When she did that she had to built backwards out of it, and it made a whole messy nonsensical story line.


Does she take a big reputational blow from this movie. She was a rainmaker with the first Wonder Woman, but with the box office performance of this one and the negative backlash does it maybe hurt her ability to write her own movies in the future?

[Harry Lime]

Most directors should not write their own movies. They are two separate skill sets, and it is rare for a person to excel at both.

[FireGilbert]

I'm one of the Australians who didn't see the original WW in theatres but did recently pay to see WW84.

I didn't pay to see the first, after the disaster of BvS, and not really being interested in the character. This time though I was interested in the character after the solid origin story and watching in the theatre was an easy choice with pretty much no other movie options over the holidays.

After WW84 I don't think I'd be willing to pay to see a 3rd film unless there was an epic trailer and a similar circumstance of no other movies out.

Thinking of WW84 more the big problem for me is that it is two movies with two tones. It needed to either be a cheezy 80s movie with Max Lord as the only villain and themes of greed and surveillance, or a serious dramatic movie with Cheetah as the only villain and themes of honesty and female empowerment.

[CaptainCrunch]

I mean as cool as it sounds in practice of having multiple villains in a movie, it rarely works. We saw it in Spiderman 3 with Sandman and Venom for example. And here it flopped too. I think though when you have one villain that's clearly either a henchmen type or a minor villain to hide the big bad, then it can work.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by blankall

Meh. There's far more Marvel fan boys in here, who both refuse to admit that anything Marvel makes is anything but high theatre and that some DC movies are good.

I think it's dangerous to just dismiss people who like Marvel films better as Marvel fanboys and refuse to admit that DC movies are good. I think there are a lot of people who just honestly find the Marvel movies better.


When I was growing up, the only comics I was really into were Archie and Transformers. I had a couple Spiderman comics and Batman comics, and myabe a Fantastic Four, that were given to me, but I never would have bought any. I didn't even really notice the difference between Marvel and DC.


I knew who Batman was essentially because of reruns of the series with Adam West, and then the Michael Keaton movie came out and I loved it. I had a vague idea of Iron Man, and I knew the Incredible Hulk through the Lou Ferrigno series. But Thor? I only knew the Norse god. Guardians of the Galaxy, Dr. Strange, my first experience with them was the MCU. In fact, while I watched Iron Man, I had zero interest in the Thor movies until they realized they were tied together.


So, I enjoy the Marvel movies more; not because I'm a fanboy, but because I just enjoy them more. And I think there are lots of people in the same position. I liked the original Batman movies when I was younger (Keaton/Kilmer, etc) until Batman and Robin. I really liked Nolan's first two films. And I watched all the newest DC films, and was really rather unimpressed.


You could argue preconceived notions, but I don't think that's the case. I mean, I was prepared for Affleck to be terrible, and I actually enjoyed his performance, if not the movie.


I think one of the biggest reasons Marvel movies are perceived as better is because they had a vision that they mostly adhered to, and forced those participating to adhere to. DC, on the other hand, seems to want to copy Marvel's vision, but doesn't actually have the patience to pull it off. They seem to react, rather than go in with everything planned out. If they want to copy Marvel, then do it right. If they want to go in a new direction, then do that.



But it seems from someone not really invested in the Marvel/DC fight, that they're just continuously shifting gears and focuses and flailing in the wind. You don't need to be MCU to make great movies.

[FireGilbert]

Looking at examples of comic book movies that worked with multiple villains I can think of The Dark Knight, Captain America TWS, and Thor 3.

The Dark Knight was very well written with Joker and Two Face fitting into the story. TWS was also well written with the villains being the henchmen and a big twist. Thor 3 did have some tonal issues between the villains but they did work as part of the overall hero's journey redemption arc.

Adding a villain just because (Venom or Cheetah) is a recipe for disaster.

[Fuzz]

Comic with NSFW words.

NSFW!

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Ped

I think it's dangerous to just dismiss people who like Marvel films better as Marvel fanboys and refuse to admit that DC movies are good. I think there are a lot of people who just honestly find the Marvel movies better.

Here here.

I find both Marvel and DC movies fall into the generic popcorn flick category. Even the "best" ones aren't some artistic or intellectual achievement. They're movies for the sake of big budget flashy entertainment.

And Marvel just does it miles better than DC.

Marvel can trot out a movie like Ant Man that wipes the floor with even the AAA superhero offerings from DC. DC hasn't done anything worthwhile since the Nolan trilogy. DC seems to suffer from terrible directing, terrible writing, and a weird inability to pull off whatever they're going for. Whether it's a "fun" movie, or a "dark/gritty" one, or an "artistic" one, they've almost been uniformly bad. Complete messes. Joker was as close as they got, and as a comic movie it tried so hard it became silly, as a serious movie it was poorly done.

Even Sony's Venom was leaps ahead of almost everything DC has put out.

Maybe DC should drop the need to have some gimmick in every movie and learn how to make a good movie first. It probably doesn't help that every big DC draw outside of Batman is boring and devoid of personality.

But yeah, as someone who is most definitely not a Marvel fanboy, it's not controversial at all to me to suggest DC is just far worse on every level. I think the Dark Knight trilogy are the best comic book movies ever made, better than anything Marvel put out since, but that ended almost a decade ago.

[CaptainCrunch]

I find that DC movies feel like they try too hard. Because of that, I think the characters come across as a bit more phony and un natural then the Marvel ones. The Marvel movies are very formulaic but they tumble on one that works and because of that the premise and dialogue just seem more natural and relaxed.


The whole "Do you bleed line" from BVS might have sounded cool, but it sounded forced if you know what I mean.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Here here.

I find both Marvel and DC movies fall into the generic popcorn flick category. Even the "best" ones aren't some artistic or intellectual achievement. They're movies for the sake of big budget flashy entertainment.

And Marvel just does it miles better than DC.

Marvel can trot out a movie like Ant Man that wipes the floor with even the AAA superhero offerings from DC. DC hasn't done anything worthwhile since the Nolan trilogy. DC seems to suffer from terrible directing, terrible writing, and a weird inability to pull off whatever they're going for. Whether it's a "fun" movie, or a "dark/gritty" one, or an "artistic" one, they've almost been uniformly bad. Complete messes. Joker was as close as they got, and as a comic movie it tried so hard it became silly, as a serious movie it was poorly done.

Even Sony's Venom was leaps ahead of almost everything DC has put out.

Maybe DC should drop the need to have some gimmick in every movie and learn how to make a good movie first. It probably doesn't help that every big DC draw outside of Batman is boring and devoid of personality.

But yeah, as someone who is most definitely not a Marvel fanboy, it's not controversial at all to me to suggest DC is just far worse on every level. I think the Dark Knight trilogy are the best comic book movies ever made, better than anything Marvel put out since, but that ended almost a decade ago.

Well said, I agree wholeheartedly with one notable exception:

Infinity War.

I dont know if you want to make an exception for the fact that it had nearly a decade of buildup to it, but that movie is an experience. That was an event. It was something else.

I could watch that movie and then immediately start it from the beginning and watch it again.

But yeah, its not 'Marvel vs DC' and some fanboy nonsense in the vein of 'Star Trek vs. Star Wars' or any nonsense like that.

We're consumers of a product, its a natural reaction of a consumer to be disappointed and upset when someone has released a product and charged you money for it and it turns out to be garbage.

Meanwhile their direct competitor has released a similar and potentially substitute product for the same price that has consistently been of higher quality.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Locke

Well said, I agree wholeheartedly with one notable exception:

Infinity War.

I dont know if you want to make an exception for the fact that it had nearly a decade of buildup to it, but that movie is an experience. That was an event. It was something else.

I could watch that movie and then immediately start it from the beginning and watch it again.

But yeah, its not 'Marvel vs DC' and some fanboy nonsense in the vein of 'Star Trek vs. Star Wars' or any nonsense like that.

We're consumers of a product, its a natural reaction of a consumer to be disappointed and upset when someone has released a product and charged you money for it and it turns out to be garbage.

Meanwhile their direct competitor has released a similar and potentially substitute product for the same price that has consistently been of higher quality.

I don't know if you mean Infinity War and Endgame together (I haven't actually gotten around to Endgame yet) but Infinity War by itself was really entertaining.

For the record, I think on an individual movie level, lots of Marvel movies beat out individual movies in the Dark Knight Trilogy. Dark Knight obviously being the best of the three and the hardest to beat, with plenty of movies above Begins and a good handful above Rises, but taken as a tight unit, the trilogy is just better to me than anything else.

But yeah. As someone who wasn't really invested in comics growing up, and who isn't bringing any preconceived notions or attachments to the "lore" of these characters or whatever, they are simply entertainment products. I like when I know the story and see what they do with it (like Spiderman) and I like when I have no flipping idea who this character is (like Ant Man) or their backstory (like Captain America) because either way, I know Marvel will put together a good movie that will entertain me. I don't need to know, I don't need to care. As movies, they are consistently entertaining despite any number of flaws they might have. They are never a bad choice to watch. If being entertained is the goal, you will always get your money's worth.

DC just doesn't deliver. It's the exact same type of product for the exact same price (whether that's through money or time commitment) and it's second rate. Hey, we make "dark" movies! Cheesy. Ok, how about a zany FUN movie? Boring. THIS ONE IS ARTISTIC AND RATED R: Taxi Driver but made by an unintelligent bro with a Tyler Durden fetish. Like what, is DC just planning to run through gimmick after gimmick hoping something sticks? Why not just do great stories with the characters you have and leave the ridiculous gimmicks like "bah it's in the 80s! outfits!!!!" aside until you figure out the part that matters?

Here's hoping they don't #### up the new Batman, I guess. Though this feels like it requires a narrator's voice telling the audience exactly how bad they #### it up.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I don't know if you mean Infinity War and Endgame together (I haven't actually gotten around to Endgame yet) but Infinity War by itself was really entertaining.

For the record, I think on an individual movie level, lots of Marvel movies beat out individual movies in the Dark Knight Trilogy. Dark Knight obviously being the best of the three and the hardest to beat, with plenty of movies above Begins and a good handful above Rises, but taken as a tight unit, the trilogy is just better to me than anything else.

But yeah. As someone who wasn't really invested in comics growing up, and who isn't bringing any preconceived notions or attachments to the "lore" of these characters or whatever, they are simply entertainment products. I like when I know the story and see what they do with it (like Spiderman) and I like when I have no flipping idea who this character is (like Ant Man) or their backstory (like Captain America) because either way, I know Marvel will put together a good movie that will entertain me. I don't need to know, I don't need to care. As movies, they are consistently entertaining despite any number of flaws they might have. They are never a bad choice to watch. If being entertained is the goal, you will always get your money's worth.

DC just doesn't deliver. It's the exact same type of product for the exact same price (whether that's through money or time commitment) and it's second rate. Hey, we make "dark" movies! Cheesy. Ok, how about a zany FUN movie? Boring. THIS ONE IS ARTISTIC AND RATED R: Taxi Driver but made by an unintelligent bro with a Tyler Durden fetish. Like what, is DC just planning to run through gimmick after gimmick hoping something sticks? Why not just do great stories with the characters you have and leave the ridiculous gimmicks like "bah it's in the 80s! outfits!!!!" aside until you figure out the part that matters?

Here's hoping they don't #### up the new Batman, I guess. Though this feels like it requires a narrator's voice telling the audience exactly how bad they #### it up.

1. For shame sir. For shame.

2. I complete agree. One thing that Marvel did was tell a good story.

I can tell you with 100% certainty that as a kid I owned a grand total of '0' Iron Man, Captain America, Hulk or Ant-Man comics. ZERO.

But thats not a problem, because they're going to hold your hand, acquaint you with the characters and then allow you to follow them through the progression of a story. They'll make you care about the characters and outcome of the conflict.

DC? Hell yes I know most DC characters pretty well. Batman, of course. Everyone knows Superman and they had tons of kids TV shows. You know all this stuff.

Oddly enough, DC decided to 'Go Dark' despite the fact that probably the majority of their demographic was used to seeing their heroes on Saturday Morning cartoons when they were kids.

But, to finalize as to your point, you are correct. The flaws with DC and Star Wars in comparison to the Marvel Universe is that one had a solid, coherent plan with people trusted to execute that plan within the agreed-upon framework and the other two were a wild, inconsistent and incoherent free-for-all.

[Fuzz]

I actually haven't watched Endgame yet either. I had it on my Netflix list, then it moved to Disney and I haven't bothered to put my pirate hat on.

[Nadal Fan]

I find it funny when people say DC hasn't made any good movies since The Dark Knight . Since the Dark Knight came out in 2008, there have been 3 DC films to make the American Film Institute top 10 movies of the year list(The Dark Knight Rises, Wonder Woman, Joker). That means highly respected critics and people working in the film industry didn't just say that those films were good, but that they were among the very best cinema had to offer that year.

[Finger Cookin]

Has Nadal Fan convinced anyone in this thread to change their mind, ever? Has anyone changed Nadal Fan's mind in this thread, ever?


Why be vague? Here's the AFI Jury for 2019: Tom Pollock, Jeanine Basinger, Bob Gazzale, Renee Graham, Mark Harris, Ann Hornaday, Annette Insdorf, Callie Khouri, Delroy Lindo, Akira Mizuta Lippit, Leonard Maltin, Amy Nicholson, Peter Travers
. Some industry folk, some critics from some major news outlets, and a few academic types. I recognize two of the names, not that that matters.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Nadal Fan

I find it funny when people say DC hasn't made any good movies since The Dark Knight . Since the Dark Knight came out in 2008, there have been 3 DC films to make the American Film Institute top 10 movies of the year list(The Dark Knight Rises, Wonder Woman, Joker). That means highly respected critics and people working in the film industry didn't just say that those films were good, but that they were among the very best cinema had to offer that year.

TDKR is an awful movie, an awful superhero movie and spits in the face of everything Batman has ever stood for. It proves everything we thought Nolan understood about the character was wrong and we’re lucky Begins and TDK were as good as they were considering how little he cares about or understands the ethos and meaning of Batman.

That movie offends me as both a film and comic book fan.

The fact it is included basically invalidates what little legitimacy something as fake as the AFI top 10 had to begin with.

[CaptainCrunch]

The Dark Knight Rises was doomed to failure in the cradle. How do you follow the Dark Knight and then the death of a oscar worthy actor?


But I was sorely dissapointed, Tom Hardy was a perfect cast for the role of Bane, but crippled by a flawed premise and a muffling costume. I'm amazed they didn't over dub it.

[Nadal Fan]

All I said was that DC has put out at least 3 good/great films in the last dozen years. I get it you didn't enjoy those movies. I was using this example to say look here are some examples of movies that people who aren't necessarily comic book fans but fans of movies in general deemed as being good. Comic book movies are supposed to be fun and I'd much rather talk about films that I enjoyed rather than crap on ones that I didn't like. I can't wait for when the Snyder Cut (part one ) comes out, this place is going to be fun.