[News] Hathaway Arb numbers: Player asking for $975k, 1 way. Team asking for $650k, 1 way

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Those numbers jive pretty well with how last season looked: Lazar started very slowly, but got better and better as the season progressed. He was a very serviceable player throughout the 2nd half of the season.

Exactly ... like my Backlund comment from a few days ago. Lazar's progression has matched the eye test.

You have to temper that because I've given up on his upside being top six, but asset management isn't to get pissy and right players off because they won't be what you hoped they could be.

He's replacement level sure, but he's not sub replacement level and he's not making too much money to be on that bubble.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by Fire

After Ferland he had the most hits in the forward group last season. Proved he can produce in the AHL, so decent possibility he can improve his production in the NHL. Always one of the most fit players on the team. Seems perfect for the 12th, 13th forward on the team.

I doubt it. Good AHLer but not anymore than that. In fact Hathaway looks like a career AHLer to me. What he showed most of last year in the NHL seems to be the maximum of what he has to give. He doesn't seem to have another level up to his game from what he did last year.

I think he is what he is right now, which is basically another Lance Bouma (who is clearly not really NHL calibre) minus that one career season.

[calumniate]

Like the signing, he has some salt that the flames will be on short supply of

[GreenLantern2814]

What does Garnett Hathaway's arbitration hearing even sound like?

Hathaway: I had like, a goal every 15 games thereabouts, and my Corso/Fenwick is better than you'd think.

Brad: #### you for making me go through this.

Arbitrator: $850k.

[Nelson]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Exactly ... like my Backlund comment from a few days ago. Lazar's progression has matched the eye test.

You have to temper that because I've given up on his upside being top six, but asset management isn't to get pissy and right players off because they won't be what you hoped they could be.

He's replacement level sure, but he's not sub replacement level and he's not making too much money to be on that bubble.

That was very helpful the way you broke up the season into segments like that. Those are interesting numbers for sure. As you know, I was just looking at the player usage charts and GAR and saying to myself: this guy is not an NHL player! But I have been humbled. Hopefully those last 25 games are a sign of things to come.


Still, if we take your more measured approach, what would you do with Lazar next season? Do you assume that, at 23 and 245 games as a forward, his development is almost finished and be okay with the press box if he can’t achieve a regular spot? Do you try to sneak him through waivers and play him a ton in the AHL thinking he might have more potential in him? Or is he actually good enough for the starting 12? I guess we’ll find out.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Nelson

That was very helpful the way you broke up the season into segments like that. Those are interesting numbers for sure. As you know, I was just looking at the player usage charts and GAR and saying to myself: this guy is not an NHL player! But I have been humbled. Hopefully those last 25 games are a sign of things to come.


Still, if we take your more measured approach, what would you do with Lazar next season? Do you assume that, at 23 and 245 games as a forward, his development is almost finished and be okay with the press box if he can’t achieve a regular spot? Do you try to sneak him through waivers and play him a ton in the AHL thinking he might have more potential in him? Or is he actually good enough for the starting 12? I guess we’ll find out.

I would start him with Ryan and either Brouwer or one of the kids and see what he can do with a steady diet of NHL games. I don't think the AHL will improve him at all. And I don't think he's a guy who's best with long periods in the press box. He's the opposite of Hathaway, who's best in short doses. Lazar is best when he has more games. I want to see what he can do with Ryan as opposed to Stajan, who had all the heart in the world but zero finish in the lest two years.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Nelson

That was very helpful the way you broke up the season into segments like that. Those are interesting numbers for sure. As you know, I was just looking at the player usage charts and GAR and saying to myself: this guy is not an NHL player! But I have been humbled. Hopefully those last 25 games are a sign of things to come.


Still, if we take your more measured approach, what would you do with Lazar next season? Do you assume that, at 23 and 245 games as a forward, his development is almost finished and be okay with the press box if he can’t achieve a regular spot? Do you try to sneak him through waivers and play him a ton in the AHL thinking he might have more potential in him? Or is he actually good enough for the starting 12? I guess we’ll find out.

That's a very good question.

To me it comes down to how you see the fourth line. The Flames seem to have ten top nine forwards this year, meaning someone is trickling to the fourth line.

If they see the fourth line as a shut down line then he's perfect. If they want to find balance on the bottom two lines with some scoring then it's likely he hurts them with his processing speed.

[Enoch Root]

Lazar has to answer that question himself by earning his ice-time (or not).

Personally, I think we see him build from the end-of-season play. I think he has another level to his progression.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Bingo

That's a very good question.

To me it comes down to how you see the fourth line. The Flames seem to have ten top nine forwards this year, meaning someone is trickling to the fourth line.

If they see the fourth line as a shut down line then he's perfect. If they want to find balance on the bottom two lines with some scoring then it's likely he hurts them with his processing speed.

I feel like whenever a team bills their 4th line as a "shut down" line, the only team they're shutting down is their own.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

I feel like whenever a team bills their 4th line as a "shut down" line, the only team they're shutting down is their own.

And that's kind of my point.

Can he be the defensive conscious and energy guy on a fourth line that still chips in?

One of Jankowski, Ryan or Bennett could be on a fourth line this year depending on how Peters sees it.

Clear top six with Frolik getting a leg up I assume on the third line.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Bingo

And that's kind of my point.

Can he be the defensive conscious and energy guy on a fourth line that still chips in?

One of Jankowski, Ryan or Bennett could be on a fourth line this year depending on how Peters sees it.

Clear top six with Frolik getting a leg up I assume on the third line.

I'd simply much Rather see a 4th line built to play hockey.

Bennett-Janko-Frolik
Foo-Ryan-Mangiapane

Vs

Hathaway-Lazar-Brouwer. Or whatever.

Flames have three absolutely redundant players. Keep the best of those three as the 13th forward, and jettison the others.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

I'd simply much Rather see a 4th line built to play hockey.

Bennett-Janko-Frolik
Foo-Ryan-Mangiapane

Vs

Hathaway-Lazar-Brouwer. Or whatever.

Flames have three absolutely redundant players. Keep the best of those three as the 13th forward, and jettison the others.

To be honest no matter how you draw up the fourth line this year its going to look better than last year.

Lazar or Foo with Ryan or Jankowski and then likely Brouwer is still a leg up. Really the fourth line that finished last year did a pretty good job in Lazar-Stajan-Brouwer. The center upgrade on it's own (and this is no offence to Stajan) has to be a leg up.

Still curious on the Brouwer plan as well.

Bottom line ... Lazar's last half pretty much displayed that he's not going to hurt anyone with his speed, physicality and positioning. And I doubt they'll ice a fourth line that is high octane enough that he will stand in their way.