[Signing] Arbitrator awards Kulak 1yr $900k 1 way

[Oling_Roachinen]

For example, William Nylander played in the AHL with the Marlies as an 18 year old. His ELC slid during that time:

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/william-nylander

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

His 3-year ELC expired because he played 3 years in the AHL. You only bank a year if you send a player to junior

Not true in the case of players with late birthdates. Valimaki is young enough that his contract will slide if he doesn’t play a lot of nhl games this year. I tend to think he will though.

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by Bingo

bad news for Kulak

He's now $6K more expensive than Valimaki and $170K more expensive than Kylington.

Hate to start this debate again, but that's agent fail in my mind.

I don't think so. If valimaki and/or Andersson make the team Kulak is traded for picks. So Kulak guarantees he's going to be playing somewhere in the nhl next season.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Bingo

If he gets sent down because he's making more money than Kylington, and passes through waivers he could be done.

His best bet is to get another 65 or so NHL games under his belt, and that avenue is best served by being less likely to get sent down and $650K would have done that.

I don't really agree. For one thing, it's rare that 170k in cap room ever becomes an issue. They're paying both players regardless of where they are, and so in real dollars, leaving Kylington in the AHL will save them about $650,000. Moreover, I think Kulak probably spends time between the press box and the ice, which is not a spot you want to put a developing young D with top 4 potential in - better he plays significant minutes in the AHL. So I think on this deal it's less likely Kulak gets sent down, not more likely.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by AC

The point being made is Valimaki is burning a year of his ELC this season no matter where he plays.

That's not true. If he plays under 10 NHL games his contract slides.

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/juuso-valimaki

Capfriendly lists him as a slide candidate.

https://www.capfriendly.com/slides

And a write up on it just yesterday:
https://flamesnation.ca/2018/07/24/j...s-this-season/

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Bingo

bad news for Kulak

He's now $6K more expensive than Valimaki and $170K more expensive than Kylington.

Hate to start this debate again, but that's agent fail in my mind.

You're bang on here. Now Kulak is on par financially with Valimaki so he'll have to outperform him. That might be a tall order. He had an advantage, and now thats gone. At least he gets a much larger AHL salary.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

I don't think so. If valimaki and/or Andersson make the team Kulak is traded for picks. So Kulak guarantees he's going to be playing somewhere in the nhl next season.

Possible but he just passed through waivers.

He may have a greater chance of NHL action in Calgary than anywhere else.

[AC]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

That's not true. If he plays under 10 NHL games his contract slides.

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/juuso-valimaki

Capfriendly lists him as a slide candidate.

https://www.capfriendly.com/slides

And a write up on it just yesterday:
https://flamesnation.ca/2018/07/24/j...s-this-season/

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Possible but he just passed through waivers.

He may have a greater chance of NHL action in Calgary than anywhere else.

Passed through and ended up with pretty much a predictable contract. I doubt any team unwilling to pick him up on waivers with a pending arb now sees a great bargain at $900K. He's a 6-7 guy.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Toonage

You're bang on here.

No, IMO he's in bizarro world.

Originally Posted by Toonage

Now Kulak is on par financially with Valimaki so he'll have to outperform him. That might be a tall order. He had an advantage, and now thats gone. At least he gets a much larger AHL salary.

He's in a much better position because he has a one way contract. The team saves real money by keeping him over any player with a two-way deal so unless Valimaki/Andersson/Kylington can provide surplus performance value = 900K+ over and above their own contract Kulak is in a much better position (and if they provide that kind of surplus value they'd be on the team over him anyways even if he made 200K less).

Good for Kulak.

[rhino]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

I think the 6 k less for Valimaki doesn’t out weigh buying an extra ELC year if they keep him in the AHL. That said I still think Valimaki forces their hand for a 9 game look.

Kylington is interesting though as I feel he could be much better and has a greater overall skill set versus Kulak and could steal that 3rd left side spot.

We could see a Byron moment after all and lose him via the waiver wire if they can’t find a mid to late pick for him.

Great and we can hear people complaining about it and to bring him back for the next 3 years

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Parallex

No, IMO he's in bizarro world.



He's in a much better position because he has a one way contract. The team saves real money by keeping him over any player with a two-way deal so unless Valimaki/Andersson/Kylington can provide surplus performance value = 900K+ over and above their own contract Kulak is in a much better position (and if they provide that kind of surplus value they'd be on the team over him anyways even if he made 200K less).

Good for Kulak.

Obviously the impact depends on (a) Hanifin's deal and (b) what, if anything, they do with Brouwer (or Stone, I guess).

[GioforPM]

I hope that, given the very predictable result, the two sides weren't too aggressive to each other in the actual hearing.

[rhino]

Originally Posted by Parallex

No, IMO he's in bizarro world.



He's in a much better position because he has a one way contract. The team saves real money by keeping him over any player with a two-way deal so unless Valimaki/Andersson/Kylington can provide surplus performance value = 900K+ over and above their own contract Kulak is in a much better position (and if they provide that kind of surplus value they'd be on the team over him anyways even if he made 200K less).

Good for Kulak.

I don’t think paying him in the minors at the NHL salary is a concern. I don’t think they have a problem risking him on waivers if one of the others out perform him.

[Draug]

Originally Posted by Locke

No. I dont think I would. I would want to make myself as valuable and flexible to the team as I could manage because you're either convinced that its your job and you're going to take it and run with it, but the fact of the matter is that you cleared waivers.

He doesnt have a lot of options or leverage and hes basically taking the team for everything he can get, that doesnt show a lot of confidence in his ability to earn a significant contract afterwards.

Or maybe he's not sure it's his job?

I get the argument that Bingo and yourself are making, but maybe Kulak feels the odds are against him surviving anywhere in the NHL. So take the guaranteed 900k instead of the 170k in the minors, and set yourself up strong for life's next chapter. Just a thought.

Another thought - this is a decent deal for the Flames. Most of us point to Valimaki and the others as ready to take Kulak's spot. But they may not. Lots of players in their positions never make the final step. At least the Flames know they have the security of Kulak having played #6 most of last season.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Draug

Or maybe he's not sure it's his job?

I get the argument that Bingo and yourself are making, but maybe Kulak feels the odds are against him surviving anywhere in the NHL. So take the guaranteed 900k instead of the 170k in the minors, and set yourself up strong for life's next chapter. Just a thought.

Another thought - this is a decent deal for the Flames. Most of us point to Valimaki and the others as ready to take Kulak's spot. But they may not. Lots of players in their positions never make the final step. At least the Flames know they have the security of Kulak having played #6 most of last season.

You may be right and thats all well and good, but I'd want our management to know that and act accordingly.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by rhino

I don’t think paying him in the minors at the NHL salary is a concern.

Then why are we currently paying Ryan Murphy buyout money. He made 700K and the Flames could have easily plopped him down in Stockton for a year. They didn't.

Having a one-way deal is an asset to keeping him up with the big club rather then the AHL squad. Full stop. Yes, yes, yes,... it's not a guarantee but if things are remotely close they're going to opt to pay the NHL money to the guy that has to get the NHL money and AHL money to the guy that can get paid AHL money rather then then doling out NHL money to both.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I don't really agree. For one thing, it's rare that 170k in cap room ever becomes an issue. They're paying both players regardless of where they are, and so in real dollars, leaving Kylington in the AHL will save them about $650,000. [b]Moreover, I think Kulak probably spends time between the press box and the ice[/b[, which is not a spot you want to put a developing young D with top 4 potential in - better he plays significant minutes in the AHL. So I think on this deal it's less likely Kulak gets sent down, not more likely.

Prout is already in the press box.

It's likely Valimaki forces the Flames hand, and Kulak is traded for a late round pick, to a non-playoff team. Phoenix/Carolina/Ottawa.

As Bingo mentioned, if the Flames send him down, and he clears, it's likely that could end his NHL career.

[Poe969]

When do they put Brower on waivers?

[burnitdown]

Originally Posted by Bingo

If he gets sent down because he's making more money than Kylington, and passes through waivers he could be done.

His best bet is to get another 65 or so NHL games under his belt, and that avenue is best served by being less likely to get sent down and $650K would have done that.

You'd have to make quite a few assumptions for that to be true:

1) We'll be so tight to the cap, a $100k-$200k difference is actually meaningful enough where they'll send the better player down.

2) He has the 6th spot locked up, provided he plays as well as he can. I don't think this is the case - he won't stay up above any of the big money, top 5D contracts so I think he's vulnerable to getting passed by Valimaki, Kylington or Andersson...even if he plays well in pre-season. The whole idea that it's in his best interest to play 65 games may very well be out of his hands.

3) Ownership doesn't care about $700k actual dollars they could save by keeping a prospect in the minors as opposed to sending Kulak down in their place.

4) You're assuming a one-way $650k contract was offered. Most signs point to Treliving playing hardball by waiving him and only offering a two-way contract. As the full salary can be buried in the minors, it seems the crux of the whole arbitration case came down to one-way or two-way, so it seems unlikely this was ever offered.

I think all these assumptions are iffy at best, so expecting a fringe NHL player to gamble perhaps his only opportunity at a one-way contract seems a little far-fetched. It odd to me how some people seem so upset he dared push for a market value contract because we'll be so tight to the cap. I'm very happy we have him locked up and pencilled in as our 6D. If he gets passed, great. He'll still be there if injuries hit though, and I'd much rather see him in the lineup than Proust.