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Old 11-29-2021, 12:38 PM   #4961
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Originally Posted by jayswin View Post
As bad as the media is hyping? They're mostly just reporting actual infection numbers and hospitalization stats. It is still really bad, that's not fear mongering.

But you're right about the second part, all you can do is live your life with the appropriate precautions.
There is absolutely a bias to emphasize the negative. Open up news and its “Worrided scientists on Omicron”. I mean scroll back a few pages.

Where is the “Doctor treating Omicron sees mild cases”?

That isn’t unbias number reporting. Its paper selling. My point is to not eat up everything they serve. Listen, be cautious, but the level of fear they push is incredible.

That is all I am advocating. Find a balance with caution and health.
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Old 11-29-2021, 12:40 PM   #4962
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Originally Posted by OldDutch View Post
There is absolutely a bias to emphasize the negative. Open up news and its “Worrided scientists on Omicron”. I mean scroll back a few pages.

Where is the “Doctor treating Omicron sees mild cases”?

That isn’t unbias number reporting. Its paper selling. My point is to not eat up everything they serve. Listen, be cautious, but the level of fear they push is incredible.

That is all I am advocating. Find a balance with caution and health.
Just remember they are content creators first and information sources second.
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Old 11-29-2021, 12:53 PM   #4963
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Originally Posted by bizaro86 View Post
High infection plus low virulence seems like a potentially beneficial - if everyone got it, had minimal symptoms, and then had better immunity for more dangerous variants.
From what I understand that's how the Spanish Flu epidemic ended, a new dominant variant emerged that had less severe symptoms but far greater infectivity, so eventually enough people got it to achieve herd immunity without it killing them. If the Omicron variant does the same this could be extremely good news
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Old 11-29-2021, 01:01 PM   #4964
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Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda View Post
From what I understand that's how the Spanish Flu epidemic ended, a new dominant variant emerged that had less severe symptoms but far greater infectivity, so eventually enough people got it to achieve herd immunity without it killing them. If the Omicron variant does the same this could be extremely good news

I have no clue how valid this is, but if true, could be the end of this:


https://www.cityam.com/coronavirus-b...delta-variant/
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Old 11-29-2021, 01:14 PM   #4965
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Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda View Post
From what I understand that's how the Spanish Flu epidemic ended, a new dominant variant emerged that had less severe symptoms but far greater infectivity, so eventually enough people got it to achieve herd immunity without it killing them. If the Omicron variant does the same this could be extremely good news
Yeah, I wasn't saying we should take up the original Swedish plan. But this might drive incremental vaccinations, and if lots of people get extra immunity from getting infected but don't get that sick that seems like a win to me. More immunity will reduce the severity of future waves.

Obviously this is just speculation at this point, since wide scale statistics on the new variant are in short supply. We'll find out soon enough- I'm choosing to be optimistic.
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Old 11-29-2021, 01:21 PM   #4966
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Originally Posted by OldDutch View Post
There is absolutely a bias to emphasize the negative. Open up news and its “Worrided scientists on Omicron”. I mean scroll back a few pages.

Where is the “Doctor treating Omicron sees mild cases”?

That isn’t unbias number reporting. Its paper selling. My point is to not eat up everything they serve. Listen, be cautious, but the level of fear they push is incredible.

That is all I am advocating. Find a balance with caution and health.

No argument from me that mainstream media is ridiculous, but in this case, one of those is a much bigger story than the other. On the one hand, you have a variant that has a notable amount of mutations at sites where antibodies tends to bind (which could imply partial immune escape). On the other, you have a doctor who saw a couple of dozen mostly university-aged patients in the first few days of their illness. Trying to extrapolate the severity of a variant from that kind of evidence is impossible.
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Old 11-29-2021, 01:40 PM   #4967
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I have no clue how valid this is, but if true, could be the end of this:

https://www.cityam.com/coronavirus-b...delta-variant/
Hopefully that's correct, but some of what's in there is demonstrably incorrect:

Quote:
Around 90 per cent of all new infections in the Johannesburg region are now caused by the Omicron strain but, so far, the Covid death rate and even hospital admissions appear not to be increasing significantly, local media report.
The rate of new admissions in Guateng has gone up more than 4x in the last 2 weeks from 135 in week 45 to 580 in week 47:

https://i.imgur.com/EdXS4rv.png

Last week's admissions were roughly on par with mid-September when Guateng was seeing 4K cases a week (last week was about 3K), so I don't think that's really supported by the fairly limited data so far.
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Old 11-29-2021, 01:44 PM   #4968
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Originally Posted by OldDutch View Post
There is absolutely a bias to emphasize the negative. Open up news and its “Worrided scientists on Omicron”. I mean scroll back a few pages.

Where is the “Doctor treating Omicron sees mild cases”?

That isn’t unbias number reporting. Its paper selling. My point is to not eat up everything they serve. Listen, be cautious, but the level of fear they push is incredible.

That is all I am advocating. Find a balance with caution and health.
Everywhere, including in the lead headline on CBC.
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Old 11-29-2021, 02:58 PM   #4969
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Originally Posted by OldDutch View Post
There is absolutely a bias to emphasize the negative. Open up news and its “Worrided scientists on Omicron”. I mean scroll back a few pages.

Where is the “Doctor treating Omicron sees mild cases”?

That isn’t unbias number reporting. Its paper selling. My point is to not eat up everything they serve. Listen, be cautious, but the level of fear they push is incredible.

That is all I am advocating. Find a balance with caution and health.
Read the entire interview with that doctor. She clearly states that the majority of her patients were healthy young men, and a young child. This group consisted of about 24 patients, and she was still very concerned about older more compromised people.

I haven't read anything that has struck me as panic. Most scientists are saying they are concerned, but they need way more data. That isn't pushing anything negative. I've seen multiple articles and posts from experts saying it may be more mild, etc etc. Seems fairly balanced to me. I think people need to take a step back and think about how they are reacting to what they are reading.

Reading that a scientist is concerned, could be taken as negative or it could be taken as they are doing their due diligence. I think it would be far worse to completely dismiss it, say this is nothing and be wrong.
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Old 11-29-2021, 04:49 PM   #4970
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No Omicron cases so far in Alberta, per presser today.
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Old 11-29-2021, 04:54 PM   #4971
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Israel’s chief of public health services, Dr. Sharon Alroy-Preis, warned Sunday that the potential for infection with the COVID variant omicron is “very high,” but stressed that in cases where vaccinated people were infected they became only slightly ill.

Speaking at a Knesset meeting, she gave the example of a flight from South Africa to the Netherlands, where 62 out of 600 passengers were found to be infected. “This is very, very fast," Alroy-Preis said.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...ses-1.10421310

What Israel says and does here will be interesting as they have been way more on top of this than most countries.
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Old 11-29-2021, 05:33 PM   #4972
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No Omicron cases so far in Alberta, per presser today.
What did they talk about at the presser?
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Old 11-29-2021, 05:33 PM   #4973
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Huh. Didn't realize that different provinces had different protocols. I did get a call from both BC Health Services and Health Canada, who gave me instructions, but they must also be giving those instructions based on provincial rules.

14 days of isolation for someone with no symptoms and a possibly negative pcr test does seem pretty extreme.
The policies are all over the place.

Everything from how to count your isolation dates if you are a close contact and asymptomatic, as in do you start counting from date of exposure, or last date of exposure and another 14 days after.

Even the public health phone calls are all over the place.

Just within my family, they've been given two different dates from the SAME health office. Its so stupid its hilarious.

Like I said, because of their stupidity, people are ignoring the PCR tests because nobody wants to deal with the phone calls, inconsistent information & direction, and inability to reason properly with the people calling.

I mean it clearly says on their website that if you're double vaccinated and don't have symptoms you do not need to isolate. But hey, can't stop with the fear mongering now after doing so well with it for the past 1.5 years.

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Close contacts of a COVID-19 case may be exempt from self-isolation (quarantine) if they have no symptoms AND are fully vaccinated or were recently infected with COVID-19 in the past six months.
https://www.gov.mb.ca/covid19/fundam...isolation.html

I have family members that are double vaccinated, no symptoms and had COVID in the last 3 months who get daily phone calls telling them they NEED to isolate. When they tell them the guidelines clearly state that you are exempt from isolation, they said 'that isn't our protocol.' lol.
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Old 11-29-2021, 07:21 PM   #4974
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Read the entire interview with that doctor. She clearly states that the majority of her patients were healthy young men, and a young child. This group consisted of about 24 patients, and she was still very concerned about older more compromised people.

I haven't read anything that has struck me as panic. Most scientists are saying they are concerned, but they need way more data. That isn't pushing anything negative. I've seen multiple articles and posts from experts saying it may be more mild, etc etc. Seems fairly balanced to me. I think people need to take a step back and think about how they are reacting to what they are reading.

Reading that a scientist is concerned, could be taken as negative or it could be taken as they are doing their due diligence. I think it would be far worse to completely dismiss it, say this is nothing and be wrong.
I am not looking to be adopted by the fake news side, any more than the follow everything they say with bated breath side.

Their both frankly wrong.

What I was clearly saying is follow protections. Wear a mask, get vaccinated, wash hands, stay away from others when sick.

What I also said was we shouldn't be beholden to the panic that the media rallies on. One of our more balanced posters (who I thank over again for their unbias information) agreed in part.

It funny how a seemingly balanced take like "Be cautious but don't live in fear" gets adopted by both sides to mean what they want to hear.

That SNL skit this weekend are they a Republican sure nailed it.
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Old 11-29-2021, 09:26 PM   #4975
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Originally Posted by OldDutch View Post
I am not looking to be adopted by the fake news side, any more than the follow everything they say with bated breath side.

Their both frankly wrong.

What I was clearly saying is follow protections. Wear a mask, get vaccinated, wash hands, stay away from others when sick.

What I also said was we shouldn't be beholden to the panic that the media rallies on. One of our more balanced posters (who I thank over again for their unbias information) agreed in part.

It funny how a seemingly balanced take like "Be cautious but don't live in fear" gets adopted by both sides to mean what they want to hear.

That SNL skit this weekend are they a Republican sure nailed it.
I never said you were. I stated that I haven't really seen anything resembling fear mongering. Almost everything being said is that there isn't enough info to know anything yet, and that it appears to be mild, but it could be a risk. Nothing in the past 3 days has suggested anyone should be living in fear. Anyone, on either side who's seeing anything different needs to take a step back and look at what's actually being said or where they are getting their info from. The facts are just that, scientists are concerned, so far things look ok, there is nothing emphasizing negativity.

The whole living in fear thing is such a toxic, silly statement anyway. People have their own level of acceptable risk for everything. I've been to concerts, out of the country, etc, but I don't eat in restaurants as much as I used to. I'm certainly not afraid of restaurants, it's just an area I can cut out without missing it too much, so I do. Every concert I've been to has required negative tests or vaccines, if they didn't, I wouldn't go. I'm clearly not afraid to go, I'm just mitigating unnecessary risk.

Nothing I've read about the new variant has suggested I should be afraid of anything. If governments want to be cautious for a couple weeks, I have no problem with that either.

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Old 11-29-2021, 10:35 PM   #4976
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I think what gets annoying is the way the statements are made. Like the difference between "we don't know much about the new variant yet" as opposed to "we don't know much about the new variant yet?!?!" is completely different. The media has given a lot of the second version, despite experts giving a lot of the first.

I get it, it's their job to drive ratings or clicks, but when you have that kind of approach yoh can see why people call this the latest "scariant" and things like that. It ratchets up the concern for some people and the cynicism for others.
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Old 11-30-2021, 02:15 AM   #4977
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Yes, transmissions reduction policies are now more damaging than beneficial.

Strategies around vaccination and limiting hospital burdens through restrictiove access policies are the only effective way forward.
I’d like to see some evidence around the first statement.

I think you need to add a “that don’t acknowledge Covid is airborne”.

Masking is still a good policy however mask type should be discussed more.
Ventilation is important. Sanitizing and barriers are useless.

We’ve known this since that Spanish Study showing time in people’s homes vs masks.
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Old 11-30-2021, 02:19 AM   #4978
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I think what gets annoying is the way the statements are made. Like the difference between "we don't know much about the new variant yet" as opposed to "we don't know much about the new variant yet?!?!" is completely different. The media has given a lot of the second version, despite experts giving a lot of the first.

I get it, it's their job to drive ratings or clicks, but when you have that kind of approach yoh can see why people call this the latest "scariant" and things like that. It ratchets up the concern for some people and the cynicism for others.
I don’t watch TV news but I think most articles have been fairly balanced.

We don’t currently know the virulence. It’s R0 is likely significantly higher than delta. We don’t know it’s impact on vaccines.

The rest is anecdotal. I heard the best analogy today of this variant being a tropical depression. We don’t know if it will hit land or even if it hits land how strong it will be so the question is how much to prepare and how to prepare?

As humans we are very poor at decision making with this kind of information. We always under or over react.
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Old 11-30-2021, 08:43 AM   #4979
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I didn't realize how little trouble one gets in crossing the border with fake documents.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...cbsa-1.6266686

"Because they have right of entry, Canadians who enter with fake COVID-19-related records are still allowed into the country, but border officials then pass on their information to the Public Health Agency of Canada (PHAC), which has ability to investigate and issue fines. Non-Canadians could be denied entry."
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Old 11-30-2021, 08:53 AM   #4980
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Penalties, fines and imprisonment

Violating any instructions provided to you when you entered Canada is an offence under the Quarantine Act and could lead to up to:
  • 6 months in prison and/or
  • $750,000 in fines
If you break your mandatory quarantine or isolation requirements and you cause the death or serious bodily harm to another person, you could face:
  • a fine of up to $1,000,000 or
  • imprisonment of up to 3 years or
  • both
The Contraventions Act provides police (including RCMP, provincial and local police) the authority to enforce the Quarantine Act. Tickets with fines of up to $5,000 may be issued for non-compliance.
https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/tr...ions/isolation


They may feel like they to away with something, but the fines can be steep. Not sure what they hand out for these specific offenses though.

EDIT:
Here's one example:
Quote:
The Public Health Agency of Canada (PHAC) has issued fines to two passengers arriving in Toronto from the United States the week of July 18, 2021, for non-compliance with entry requirements.

Each traveller received four fines—a total of $19,720 for each traveller—for providing false information related to proof of vaccination credentials and pre-departure tests, as well as, for non-compliance with the requirement to stay at a government-authorized accommodation and on-arrival testing requirements.
https://www.canada.ca/en/public-heal...ure-tests.html

Happy to see these a-holes get a significant fine.
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