The Matthew Tkachuk contract negotiations

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Yeah he is, IMO. And he likely has more trade value than Gio.

I agree, but that is irrelevant. insofar as the question of Tkachuk's present on-ice importance is for team success, an how consequential his absence might be.

I would assume the debatable argument is over Tkachuk, Monny and Lindholm. But everyone will have a different opinion on this. I would agree its close either way.

Exactly. I consider Monahan unambiguously as one of the Flames's top three players, but also probably have the gap between him and Tkachuk a little wider than you does. He is a top-line centre with five years of experience at the position, and has outscored Tkachuk every season. Monahan's performance affects the Flames overall fortunes much more than Tkachuk's do. That could change, but that's the situation right now. I think the debate is closer between Lindholm and Tkachuk.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I agree, but that is irrelevant. insofar as the question of Tkachuk's present on-ice importance is for team success, an how consequential his absence might be.

Exactly. I consider Monahan unambiguously as one of the Flames's top three players, but also probably have the gap between him and Tkachuk a little wider than you does. He is a top-line centre with five years of experience at the position, and has outscored Tkachuk every season. Monahan's performance affects the Flames overall fortunes much more than Tkachuk's do. That could change, but that's the situation right now. I think the debate is closer between Lindholm and Tkachuk.

I don't disagree with you per se, I just like what Tkachuk brings to the table more than Monny. With Monny older, comparing stats is harder.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I don't disagree with you per se, I just like what Tkachuk brings to the table more than Monny. With Monny older, comparing stats is harder.

But not when comparing them in the same season. Like I said: maybe Tkachuk gets there—maybe as soon as this year. But for now, Monahan's performance is more important to the Flames's success than Tkachuk's is.

[leo_mendes]

I think that if you offer more than 8.5M in average to Tkachuk , you will create a potential issue with Gaudreau. You may argue that the market has changed and justify up to 1 M higher value but more than that it will signalling to Johnny that he has a bad contract. I am not saying the Gaudreau will sabotage the team but those things may affect performance even unintentionally

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by leo_mendes

I think that if you offer more than 8.5M in average to Tkachuk , you will create a potential issue with Gaudreau. You may argue that the market has changed and justify up to 1 M higher value but more than that it will signalling to Johnny that he has a bad contract. I am not saying the Gaudreau will sabotage the team but those things may affect performance even unintentionally

No, it does nothing of the sort.

The only thing a higher cap hit signals is that the dollar value paid for RFAs has become significantly inflated over the past three years as a result of increased NHL revenues. Gaudreau understands this. Every NHL player understands this.

[goflamesgo18]

Really hoping BT holds strong in negotiations and doesnt cave. Can't compare our RFAs to other team's RFAs gigantic second contracts.

And if Tkachuk sits out games hopefully the team is successful without him. Im thinking the same contract Gio and Gaudreau got is fair for Tkachuk too.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by goflamesgo18

Really hoping BT holds strong in negotiations and doesnt cave. Can't compare our RFAs to other team's RFAs gigantic second contracts.

And if Tkachuk sits out games hopefully the team is successful without him. Im thinking the same contract Gio and Gaudreau got is fair for Tkachuk too.

There is no chance Tkachuk signs a six year deal under $7.0 m AAV. That's not happening.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Agreed. The only way Tkachuk is slightly below those contracts is a bridge, 1 or 2 years.

Which I would not mind seeing today!

[mikeecho]

Originally Posted by leo_mendes

I think that if you offer more than 8.5M in average to Tkachuk , you will create a potential issue with Gaudreau.

The only thing Gaudreau will be thinking if Tkachuk cashes in is that he’s gonna get paaaaaaiiiiiiiiid when his contract is up. #Comparables

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

No, it does nothing of the sort.

The only thing a higher cap hit signals is that the dollar value paid for RFAs has become significantly inflated over the past three years as a result of increased NHL revenues. Gaudreau understands this. Every NHL player understands this.

Yet they don't understand escrow. Me thinks you give them too much credit.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

No, it does nothing of the sort.

The only thing a higher cap hit signals is that the dollar value paid for RFAs has become significantly inflated over the past three years as a result of increased NHL revenues**. Gaudreau understands this. Every NHL player understands this.

**Except
- top contracts have outpaced cap growth
- cap growth has exceeded pace of HRR growth as well due to the PA using the 5% in years where HRR didn’t grow that much

[Aleks]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

If he misses significant time, you will be eating crow on this one. There were many, many games last season that Tkachuk dragged the Flames into battle when they needed a boost. Make no mistake, this guy is now part of the lifeblood of the Flames and is one of the few players who brings it physically and emotionally nearly every time he suits up.

Aside from Gio, Backlund, Hamonic and possibly Bennett, there is nobody else who comes consistently close to his level of compete on the roster. There's certainly nobody else who can come close to replacing his production at this time either.

It's a brutal situation for the team and player. No sense in minimizing it.

While Tkachuk has the production numbers which can't be disputed, I think he's still the worst skater out of the whole bunch of his comparable, which I think is a knock off

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Aleks

While Tkachuk has the production numbers which can't be disputed, I think he's still the worst skater out of the whole bunch of his comparable, which I think is a knock off

Honest question but how many times has it been where you (or anyone) said to themselves..."geez MT's skating really screwed that up", because i genuinely dont remember anything specific.

I agree he is average at best, (speed wise anyhow), but he is so strong on his skates and is so smart (hockey IQ) that it is a non-issue when i watch him.

Therefor I dont think his skating abilities have any part of the discussion as to a new contract.

[Monahammer]

I think the team would struggle more for long periods if we lost any of Monahan, Gaudreau, or Giordano. Potentially Rittich depending on who are backup is this year.

with that considered, Tkachuk must be our 4th or 5th best player overall (or at least the 4th or 5th most valuable for team success.)

[Aleks]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Honest question but how many times has it been where you (or anyone) said to themselves..."geez MT's skating really screwed that up", because i genuinely dont remember anything specific.

I agree he is average at best, (speed wise anyhow), but he is so strong on his skates and is so smart (hockey IQ) that it is a non-issue when i watch him.

Therefor I dont think his skating abilities have any part of the discussion as to a new contract.

That's a fair assertion, but how is it not a fair observation when skating ability gets brought up in the evaluation of many players? I agree, he's positionally sound, he's strong on his skates, he's got a great knack for being right where he can take out the trash.....but its still a factor, the game isn't getting slower. I'm just surprised it hasn't been addressed yet for one, and I also think that reduces his "eliteness" in my eyes.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Aleks

That's a fair assertion, but how is it not a fair observation when skating ability gets brought up in the evaluation of many players? I agree, he's positionally sound, he's strong on his skates, he's got a great knack for being right where he can take out the trash.....but its still a factor, the game isn't getting slower. I'm just surprised it hasn't been addressed yet for one, and I also think that reduces his "eliteness" in my eyes.

There are a couple of things at work here:

First and foremost: Matthew Tkachuk is an elite-level winger. Period. His below average skating does not detract from that.

Second, while Tkachuk is not as good of a skater as Point or Rantanen, he does other things better than either of these players which contribute to his distinction as an elite player. So, for example, while Tkachuk does not skate as well as Rantanen, Rantanen does not have the vision nor the anticipation for the game that Tkachuk does. These individual aspects for each player are not getting played off of one another by agents and GMs—for each player they are all part of a package that contribute to their overall quality. Negotiations will centre on the quality of the player in determining his value.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

There are a couple of things at work here:

First and foremost: Matthew Tkachuk is an elite-level winger. Period. His below average skating does not detract from that.

Second, while Tkachuk is not as good of a skater as Point or Rantanen, he does other things better than either of these players which contribute to his distinction as an elite player. So, for example, while Tkachuk does not skate as well as Rantanen, Rantanen does not have the vision nor the anticipation for the game that Tkachuk does. These individual aspects for each player are not getting played off of one another by agents and GMs—for each player they are all part of a package that contribute to their overall quality. Negotiations will centre on the quality of the player in determining his value.

What specifically are you seeing in Rantanten, vs Tkachuk that allows you to conclude that Tkachuk has better vision/anticipation?

Surely not the playoffs.

[goflamesgo18]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

There is no chance Tkachuk signs a six year deal under $7.0 m AAV. That's not happening.

Maybe same average for 5 years then. He hasnt been more important to this team than those 2 guys at the time of their contracts, and the cap hasnt increased that much since they signed. The market is ridiculous because too many GMs are treating these RFAs like UFAs.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by goflamesgo18

Maybe same average for 5 years then. He hasnt been more important to this team than those 2 guys at the time of their contracts, and the cap hasnt increased that much since they signed. The market is ridiculous because too many GMs are treating these RFAs like UFAs.

He isnt signing ANY deal for less than 7 million per unless its 2 years max.

[bax]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

What specifically are you seeing in Rantanten, vs Tkachuk that allows you to conclude that Tkachuk has better vision/anticipation?



Surely not the playoffs.

Rantanen plays on a line with quite possibly the 2nd or 3rd best player in the game today.

No disrespect to Backlund, but he’s not exactly an offensive dynamo.