View Poll Results: Best guess for Tkachuk's contract result
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8 @ 7M
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10 |
1.61% |
8 @ 8M
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41 |
6.59% |
8 @ 9M
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21 |
3.38% |
8 @ 10M
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8 |
1.29% |
7 @ 7M
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21 |
3.38% |
7 @ 8M
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61 |
9.81% |
7 @ 9M
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19 |
3.05% |
7 @ 10M
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3 |
0.48% |
6 @ 6M
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4 |
0.64% |
6 @ 7M
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48 |
7.72% |
6 @ 8M
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126 |
20.26% |
6 @ 9M
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27 |
4.34% |
5 @ 6M
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3 |
0.48% |
5 @ 7M
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56 |
9.00% |
5 @ 8M
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66 |
10.61% |
5 @ 9M
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10 |
1.61% |
4 @ 5M
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1 |
0.16% |
4 @ 6M
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4 |
0.64% |
4 @ 7M
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19 |
3.05% |
3 @ 4M
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2 |
0.32% |
3 @ 5M
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4 |
0.64% |
3 @ 6M
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46 |
7.40% |
2 @ 4M
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3 |
0.48% |
2 @ 5M
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15 |
2.41% |
1 @ 4M
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1 |
0.16% |
1 @ 5M
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3 |
0.48% |
08-13-2019, 02:04 PM
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#681
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Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Airdrie
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My guess was with 6 years @ 8
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08-13-2019, 02:28 PM
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#682
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Celebrated Square Root Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getbak
I chose 6 years @ $8 million, but I think 2 years at $6 million or so is also possible.
I also wouldn't be shocked if he signed a 1 year deal to help the team get under the cap with a handshake deal to sign a longer, higher-value deal in the new year once the tagging room becomes available.
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This gets speculated quite a bit on RFA players over the years, but does it actually every happen? It doesn't really seem like a thing.
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08-13-2019, 02:35 PM
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#683
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayswin
This gets speculated quite a bit on RFA players over the years, but does it actually every happen? It doesn't really seem like a thing.
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Well....much like being a 'Famous Smuggler' if the 'wink, wing, nudge, nudge' handshake deal was common knowledge then it wouldnt really work anymore, would it?
Then again, results speak more loudly than Press Conferences so the dearth of 1-Year, $1M superstar contracts subsequently followed up by mega-deals probably insinuates that if this does happen it doesnt happen that often or that obviously.
__________________
The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a Fire Exit. - Mitch Hedberg
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08-13-2019, 02:40 PM
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#684
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Taking a while to get to 5000
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Didn't Labanc just do this for San Jose?
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08-13-2019, 02:46 PM
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#685
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Scoring Winger
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On the subject of players taking less than market value, I think of the 2003 Colorado Avalanche who signed Paul Kariya for $1.2M and Teemu Selanne for $5.8M (hey, who was more committed here?)
excerpt:
"The Avalanche Signs Kariya and Selanne
By The Associated Press
July 4, 2003
Kariya and Selanne used their free agency to team up in a quest to win the Stanley Cup. Former Anaheim teammates, the two took major pay cuts in agreeing to sign contracts with the Colorado Avalanche.
Once linemates on the Mighty Ducks, Kariya and Selanne became business partners on the open market. They joined the Avalanche as a package deal.
''When we both became free agents, we made a hockey decision,'' Kariya said at a news conference. ''We both said, 'Forget about the money, where's the place we want to play?' And Colorado jumped out at both of us immediately. So we made things work monetarily.''
Kariya, who played with the Mighty Ducks last season, agreed to a $1.2 million contract, according to a source within the N.H.L. who spoke to the A.P. on the condition of anonymity. Kariya earned $10 million in his final season with Anaheim.
Selanne, who declined his option at $6.5 million with the San Jose Sharks, agreed to a $5.8 million contract with Colorado, the source said."
S_C
Last edited by Southern_Canuck; 08-13-2019 at 02:50 PM.
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08-13-2019, 02:47 PM
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#686
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Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Strathmore
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I cant believe that this kid will make north of 8 mil per season. Good player for sure, but did absolutely zip in the playoffs, and IMO, not worth a big payday until he can.
That being said, I guess 6x8. Hope for 1x4 as others suggest for cap relief purposes.
Last edited by wired; 08-13-2019 at 02:50 PM.
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08-13-2019, 03:31 PM
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#687
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern_Canuck
On the subject of players taking less than market value, I think of the 2003 Colorado Avalanche who signed Paul Kariya for $1.2M and Teemu Selanne for $5.8M (hey, who was more committed here?)
excerpt:
"The Avalanche Signs Kariya and Selanne
By The Associated Press
July 4, 2003
Kariya and Selanne used their free agency to team up in a quest to win the Stanley Cup. Former Anaheim teammates, the two took major pay cuts in agreeing to sign contracts with the Colorado Avalanche.
Once linemates on the Mighty Ducks, Kariya and Selanne became business partners on the open market. They joined the Avalanche as a package deal.
''When we both became free agents, we made a hockey decision,'' Kariya said at a news conference. ''We both said, 'Forget about the money, where's the place we want to play?' And Colorado jumped out at both of us immediately. So we made things work monetarily.''
Kariya, who played with the Mighty Ducks last season, agreed to a $1.2 million contract, according to a source within the N.H.L. who spoke to the A.P. on the condition of anonymity. Kariya earned $10 million in his final season with Anaheim.
Selanne, who declined his option at $6.5 million with the San Jose Sharks, agreed to a $5.8 million contract with Colorado, the source said."
S_C
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I forgot about that duo deal.
...it then reminded me that this happened:
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08-13-2019, 03:35 PM
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#688
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern_Canuck
On the subject of players taking less than market value, I think of the 2003 Colorado Avalanche who signed Paul Kariya for $1.2M and Teemu Selanne for $5.8M (hey, who was more committed here?)
excerpt:
"The Avalanche Signs Kariya and Selanne
By The Associated Press
July 4, 2003
Kariya and Selanne used their free agency to team up in a quest to win the Stanley Cup. Former Anaheim teammates, the two took major pay cuts in agreeing to sign contracts with the Colorado Avalanche.
Once linemates on the Mighty Ducks, Kariya and Selanne became business partners on the open market. They joined the Avalanche as a package deal.
''When we both became free agents, we made a hockey decision,'' Kariya said at a news conference. ''We both said, 'Forget about the money, where's the place we want to play?' And Colorado jumped out at both of us immediately. So we made things work monetarily.''
Kariya, who played with the Mighty Ducks last season, agreed to a $1.2 million contract, according to a source within the N.H.L. who spoke to the A.P. on the condition of anonymity. Kariya earned $10 million in his final season with Anaheim.
Selanne, who declined his option at $6.5 million with the San Jose Sharks, agreed to a $5.8 million contract with Colorado, the source said."
S_C
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That's more typical of a team friendly deal - a situation where the player has already made a #### ton of money and can then just pick a nice place to play.
The Tkachuk handshake deal might actually be cap circumvention if the quid pro quo is a higher amount which, if the contract was evened out over both terms, would put the Flames offside.
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08-13-2019, 03:48 PM
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#689
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern_Canuck
On the subject of players taking less than market value, I think of the 2003 Colorado Avalanche who signed Paul Kariya for $1.2M and Teemu Selanne for $5.8M (hey, who was more committed here?)
excerpt:
"The Avalanche Signs Kariya and Selanne
By The Associated Press
July 4, 2003
Kariya and Selanne used their free agency to team up in a quest to win the Stanley Cup. Former Anaheim teammates, the two took major pay cuts in agreeing to sign contracts with the Colorado Avalanche.
Once linemates on the Mighty Ducks, Kariya and Selanne became business partners on the open market. They joined the Avalanche as a package deal.
''When we both became free agents, we made a hockey decision,'' Kariya said at a news conference. ''We both said, 'Forget about the money, where's the place we want to play?' And Colorado jumped out at both of us immediately. So we made things work monetarily.''
Kariya, who played with the Mighty Ducks last season, agreed to a $1.2 million contract, according to a source within the N.H.L. who spoke to the A.P. on the condition of anonymity. Kariya earned $10 million in his final season with Anaheim.
Selanne, who declined his option at $6.5 million with the San Jose Sharks, agreed to a $5.8 million contract with Colorado, the source said."
S_C
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Heres the thing of 'Handshake Salary Cap Circumventing' deals.
There has to be a salary cap in place. Unlike 2003.
__________________
The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a Fire Exit. - Mitch Hedberg
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08-13-2019, 03:59 PM
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#690
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM
That's more typical of a team friendly deal - a situation where the player has already made a #### ton of money and can then just pick a nice place to play.
The Tkachuk handshake deal might actually be cap circumvention if the quid pro quo is a higher amount which, if the contract was evened out over both terms, would put the Flames offside.
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How is that any different than the Leblanc signing. That has all the optics of a handshake deal of take a low salary now and we will compensate you later.
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08-13-2019, 04:04 PM
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#691
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbob
How is that any different than the Leblanc signing. That has all the optics of a handshake deal of take a low salary now and we will compensate you later.
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I guess it depends on whether the "correct" compensation would take you over the cap. You will have to see what Lebanc makes later on to really make out cap circumvention.
The concept would be:
a. Paying player X the 8x$8M he probably merits takes you over the cap right now.
b. But you lose some salary after that so you could afford it later.
c. So you agree to a one year at $4M and then sign him next year for 7 years at $9M. He makes more over the term but you keep the cap this year. It's effectively $8.75x8.
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08-13-2019, 04:19 PM
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#692
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getbak
I chose 6 years @ $8 million, but I think 2 years at $6 million or so is also possible.
I also wouldn't be shocked if he signed a 1 year deal to help the team get under the cap with a handshake deal to sign a longer, higher-value deal in the new year once the tagging room becomes available.
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Handshake deals would be considered cap circumvention.
The best a team could say is "We can't agree to anything now, but we'll look favourably upon a longer deal at this money if you are playing well at that time". Nothing can be guaranteed.
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08-13-2019, 04:26 PM
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#693
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wired
I cant believe that this kid will make north of 8 mil per season. Good player for sure, but did absolutely zip in the playoffs, and IMO, not worth a big payday until he can.
That being said, I guess 6x8. Hope for 1x4 as others suggest for cap relief purposes.
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this again? Highest paid player in the league has made the playoffs 1 time in 4 seasons. Skinner has never played a playoff game and just got 9M
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GFG
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08-13-2019, 04:27 PM
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#694
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Backup Goalie
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kelowna
Exp:
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Can he not sign a 1 year contract for 5 million and then the next day since he is in the final year of his contract sign an 8 year deal for 8 million per year?
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08-13-2019, 04:28 PM
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#695
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSIM420
Can he not sign a 1 year contract for 5 million and then the next day since he is in the final year of his contract sign an 8 year deal for 8 million per year?
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I think he would have to wait to January before he can sign that next deal.
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08-13-2019, 04:36 PM
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#696
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSIM420
Can he not sign a 1 year contract for 5 million and then the next day since he is in the final year of his contract sign an 8 year deal for 8 million per year?
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Man. If you are going to try and circumvent the cap at least make it look good.
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08-13-2019, 04:39 PM
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#697
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First Line Centre
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I voted for 3 @ 6M, this gets them under the cap until they get the buyouts and Gio's contract off the books, so they will have the cap space available then to re-sign Tkachuk (it will be interesting to see what happens with Gaudreau at that time). This maximizes the team's flexibility to bring in support while they still have Gaudreau at his current cap hit.
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08-13-2019, 04:52 PM
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#698
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dino7c
this again? Highest paid player in the league has made the playoffs 1 time in 4 seasons. Skinner has never played a playoff game and just got 9M
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Skinner was a UFA and his contract is in no way comparable, and in addition to that, it was signed before the cap turned out to be lower than expected, so it formed a certain percentage of what was assumed at the time to be a higher cap (I believe that the fact that the actual cap is lower than expected will constrain the prices of the remaining UFA contracts this summer). Similarly, Draisaitl's contract had to take into account the fact that he is a natural centre. If people are guessing the price of Tkachuk's contract based on comparable players, they have to be literally comparable.
Last edited by Macindoc; 08-13-2019 at 04:55 PM.
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08-13-2019, 09:05 PM
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#699
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Calgary, AB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cobra
Handshake deals would be considered cap circumvention.
The best a team could say is "We can't agree to anything now, but we'll look favourably upon a longer deal at this money if you are playing well at that time". Nothing can be guaranteed.
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Well yeah, that's what a handshake deal is.
It wouldn't be cap circumvention because no cap is being circumvented. All the money paid to the player would still be paid and accounted for under the cap.
The only teams who have had any troubles with cap circumvention charges were those who signed long-term deals where the player was unlikely to play the full term which included a few low-value years at the end to bring the cap down in the early years of the contract. Tkachuk signing a one-year bridge deal would be the exact opposite of that.
I think people are taking the term "handshake deal" to be more nefarious than I intended. I wasn't suggesting he sign anything close to the Lebanc contract, rather something like a 1 year $5-6 million deal with a promise to go longer-term once the Frolik and Brodie deals are off the books.
If the league didn't have any problems with Lebanc's contract, they certainly wouldn't have any problems with Tkachuk signing for $5 or $6 million.
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Turn up the good, turn down the suck!
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08-13-2019, 10:01 PM
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#700
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Pent-up
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Plutanamo Bay.
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A 1 year deal is cap procrastination at best. You aren’t circumventing anything.
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