[GDT] GTD - Flames vs Blues - 6:00 - SNetCgy

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Patrick Kane is on a team with some of the best 2 way players in the game...its such a stupid debate. Quit talking like he is going out and winning cups by himself he is part of the team and there are more important players to their success then him

Well, he did win the Conn Smythe this year, but what do they know? You're right, it's a team game, but it seems he was pretty damn important last season during the playoffs. There's quite an argument for him being the most important part that time.

[Gary83]

Flames switch it up and win 5-1 tonight.

Sven doesn't play another game all year.

[wingmaker]

I reserve judgment on this as I do not know what is happening behind closed doors. None of us are privy to that information, so it is really not fair to say that we know better than Hartley when we have no idea what the real situation is.

That said, even if it is as simple as it appears, that Hartley simply wants more, well that isn't really that hard to understand. Baertschi is nowhere near the player Kane is, so the comparisons are ridiculous. He has the chance to be a very good player that can score and contribute in a top six role. But he isn't going to get there without being smart and putting in effort in every facet of the game. He is just not a good enough player for that. If he was, his numbers would reflect it. The truth of the matter is, outside of his five game call-up, he has not been a wow prospect. He did not dominate in the AHL, contrary to what some seem to suggest. He played well but he did not dominate. He has not been consistent at the NHL level, despite being on a line that has been the most productive on the team for much of the season. He is somewhere between the NHL and the AHL it seems. If people want to criticize keeping him up and not sending him to the AHL, that seems fair. Clearly, the club feels he can learn and develop with the big club and, as part of the process of acclimatizing him, has decided not to play him every game. This is really nothing new or surprising. It happens to players in every organization. The over reaction on here is really extreme.

[Stanley]

Originally Posted by heep223

I agree with Hartley's quote re: Reinhart but that has nothing to do with Jackman playing with Money and Hudler. Ie. just because Reinhart is playing doesn't mean that Sven can't. If anything he should be replacing Jackman not sven.

Blues are a big, hard checking team. IMO that's why Jackman is in, same with McGrattan and the reason the morning skate lineups look the way they do, at least one big body on each line, spread it out a bit to roll 4 lines. I'd prefer Sven over Jackman anyday, but perhaps we see Sven come in tomorrow vs Avs, an opponent that requires less Jackman/Gratts and more speed/skill like Sven.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by Stanley

Blues are a big, hard checking team. IMO that's why Jackman is in, same with McGrattan and the reason the morning skate lineups look the way they do, at least one big body on each line, spread it out a bit to roll 4 lines. I'd prefer Sven over Jackman anyday, but perhaps we see Sven come in tomorrow vs Avs, an opponent that requires less Jackman/Gratts and more speed/skill like Sven.

I'm sure you're right but that might still be the wrong approach. It's not just about one on one physical battles - and these the Flames will most likely lose anyway - it's about not giving up the puck. There's more to puck battle than physical strength. Guys who can only pass the puck along the boards might hurt more than help.

[devo22]

Darren Haynes is such a good follow for stats like this one.

Darren Haynes ‏@DarrenHaynes_CP
Jackman has 2 goals in his last 148 games (nearly 22 hours of ice time). That's the equivalent of listening to Stairway to Heaven 163 times.

[Itse]

I admit, I don't get those lines at all. I don't see how they could work.

We'll see.

[Stanley]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

I'm sure you're right but that might still be the wrong approach. It's not just about one on one physical battles - and these the Flames will most likely lose anyway - it's about not giving up the puck. There's more to puck battle than physical strength. Guys who can only pass the puck along the boards might hurt more than help.

Fair enough, although one of Sven's flaws is giving up the puck and forcing passes creating turnovers...

If this helps Sven learn the game better and improve consitency and overall effort, then so be it.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by strombad

If you don't think he should be taught to be defensive, he should sure as hell be putting up some offence.

How does one put up offence when you are on the 4th line or in the press box? I agree he needs to be a better player defensively but at the same time this is a rebuilding year. Either give the kid some minutes or send him down to Abby. This is turning into a return of the Marc Savard vs Flames coach Greg Gilbert debacle and an unwanted distraction for the team.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by Stanley

Fair enough, although one of Sven's flaws is giving up the puck and forcing passes creating turnovers...

If this helps Sven learn the game better and improve consitency and overall effort, then so be it.

He's had games where he was very good with his passes and puck management.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Patrick Kane is -9 right now on the Hawks. Hawks fans agree that he is bad defensively, and they're fine with that, because he's a point per game offensive player.

He is a bad defensive player. I'm not even saying that Baertschi is bad in his own zone, but Patrick Kane is doing just fine, never stepping into his own zone at all (he hasn't significantly improved his defensive play, contrary to what you believe; he's gone from terrible to awful)

I don't know if we can really compare Sven to Kane. From the moment Kane played in the NHL, he was producing. If Sven produced like Kane, there is no way Hartley would sit him.

Honestly, Monahan hasn't been that great in the defensive end as he's still learning the game and making mistakes, but he's in the lineup because he's still producing.

Iggy got lots of icetime in recent years despite not competing in all 3 zones, but he was at least producing offense. If Sven wants to play, he needs to compete and/or produce. He's doing neither right now.

[TheDebaser]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

He's had games where he was very good with his passes and puck management.

Really, I think he's just learning how to be effective consistently. Sometimes he pulls off the moves that make him a great passer and puck manager, other times he doesn't and ends up losing possession.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by TheDebaser

Really, I think he's just learning how to be effective consistently. Sometimes he pulls off the moves that make him a great passer and puck manager, other times he doesn't and ends up losing possession.

Yeah, but it's not just about Bärtschi. The idea of icing big bodies against the Blues might be questionable if the big bodies can't hold on to the puck. You don't get anywhere by winning a physical battle and then simply returning the puck to the opponent. Might work one shift but it will cost you in the long run.

Against Minnesota they worked pretty hard for most of the game but they didn't have the puck at all. It looked like a lost game at 1-1.

[Travis Munroe]

Originally Posted by playmaker

projected lines:

http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?...id=DL|CGY|home

Bouma - Stajan - Jones
Cammalleri - Colborne - Galiardi
Jackman - Monahan - Hudler
Baertschi - Backlund - McGrattan

Butler - Brodie
Russel - Wideman
Billins - O'Brien

Berra

Let's hope that things turn out well ...
... so that we can draft our franchise dman Ekblad in 2014

I don't mind these lines at all.

Bouma - Stajan - Jones - Gotta mix something up for all these guys who can play but arent seeing results. Bouma should be real fun to watch with these

Cammalleri - Colborne - Galiardi - Sniper, Playmaker, Hustle...should be another fun line.

Jackman - Monahan - Hudler - meh...should be Reinhart in place of Jackman but maybe needs a couple more practices. Mony and Hudler have the undeniable chemistry...puttin Sven on this line leaves Backlund to play with McG and Jackman which just doesnt work.

McG - Backlund - Sven - Really hoping to see some chemistry spark between Sven and Backlund....Hopefully McG adds some confidence for them to play a more finesse game with each other.

I would like to see us scratch Jackman and McG against a team who doesnt have players taking liberties. I can't think of one of the top of my head...are there any?

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

Yeah, but it's not just about Bärtschi. The idea of icing big bodies against the Blues might be questionable if the big bodies can't hold on to the puck. You don't get anywhere by winning a physical battle and then simply returning the puck to the opponent. Might work one shift but it will cost you in the long run.

Against Minnesota they worked pretty hard for most of the game but they didn't have the puck at all. It looked like a lost game at 1-1.

Great point, you don't get points and win games for how many body checks you throw in a game. I can't watch this game, I see a blowout coming again.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by Realtor 1

McG - Backlund - Sven - Really hoping to see some chemistry spark between Sven and Backlund....Hopefully McG adds some confidence for them to play a more finesse game with each other.

Sven isn't playing, Reinhart is.

[MissTeeks]

In a non-Sven comment, who would have guessed Alex Steen would be leading the league in goals right now?

[Travis Munroe]

Sorry, just saw that
Im as puzzled as all of you now.... Jackman and Mcgrattan - No Sven
I might treat tonights game like a Friday night and start tipping cold ones early to ease the frustration.

[J epworth]

Originally Posted by MissTeeks

In a non-Sven comment, who would have guessed Alex Steen would be leading the league in goals right now?

He has a disgusting 30% shot rate right now, it's just insane. Seems like every time he touches the puck it ends in the net. He's a solid player, but not this good. His streak is much like Monahan's was at the beginning of the year, yet for him it's somehow lasted over a month now. Fun to watch, that's for sure.

[Dion]