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Old 12-05-2018, 11:31 AM   #1041
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That would be part of the prudent solution to our problem. Still think we all need to look in the mirror so to speak.
I agree. Still it's a political death trap. I still admire Mulroney for putting in the GST and paying for it with his political life! takes guts!
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Old 12-05-2018, 11:33 AM   #1042
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I definitely prefer the Federal carbon tax, since it's not an income-tested rebate.

Makes perfect sense from a policy perspective. If you decide to pollute, you should be paying for it.
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Old 12-05-2018, 11:37 AM   #1043
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I don't understand what any of these posts are about. Kenney was instrumental in forming much of the CPC platform, there's no reason to type it all out.

Regardless, what's the point? You guys think Kenney is actually a fiscal liberal?
If he was instrumental, finding proof of this should be easy right? Burden of proof is on the claimant.

And the point is that every party in Canada for the last 40+ years has had a spending problem to varying degrees; none have practiced "true fiscal conservatism" by any stretch. The PC/Reform/UPC practice has been more social with some passive effect on economics (because they cut social spending for things they don't like). Lets not even get into the fact that you are pretending there only exists a straight-line two-sided fiscal policy spectrum.
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Old 12-05-2018, 01:27 PM   #1044
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If he was instrumental, finding proof of this should be easy right? Burden of proof is on the claimant.

And the point is that every party in Canada for the last 40+ years has had a spending problem to varying degrees; none have practiced "true fiscal conservatism" by any stretch. The PC/Reform/UPC practice has been more social with some passive effect on economics (because they cut social spending for things they don't like). Lets not even get into the fact that you are pretending there only exists a straight-line two-sided fiscal policy spectrum.
Wow the list of strawmen in here is seriously impressive but I guess when faced with harsh realities it may seem like a prudent direction. It basically removes any need for further discussion.

But since you are so adamant, where is your proof that the Reform Party and or UCP Party has, in practice, cut social spending?
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Old 12-05-2018, 01:29 PM   #1045
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Wow the list of strawmen in here is seriously impressive but I guess when faced with harsh realities it may seem like a prudent direction. It basically removes any need for further discussion.

But since you are so adamant, where is your proof that the Reform Party and or UCP Party has, in practice, cut social spending?
So you can't provide an example then? Let's not resort to whataboutism.
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Old 12-05-2018, 01:33 PM   #1046
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I'm going to take a drink every time strawman and whataboutism is used in this thread.
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Old 12-05-2018, 01:36 PM   #1047
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I'm going to take a drink every time strawman and whataboutism is used in this thread.

Your liver, she canna take it. It'll blow apart!
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Old 12-05-2018, 01:39 PM   #1048
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Originally Posted by crazy_eoj View Post
Wow the list of strawmen in here is seriously impressive but I guess when faced with harsh realities it may seem like a prudent direction. It basically removes any need for further discussion.

But since you are so adamant, where is your proof that the Reform Party and or UCP Party has, in practice, cut social spending?
Can you not give even one example of Kenney having a direct hand in forming fiscally conservative policy?

Strawmen, harsh realities, what are you talking about?

Just provide an example.
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Old 12-05-2018, 01:41 PM   #1049
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Originally Posted by crazy_eoj View Post
Wow the list of strawmen in here is seriously impressive but I guess when faced with harsh realities it may seem like a prudent direction. It basically removes any need for further discussion.

But since you are so adamant, where is your proof that the Reform Party and or UCP Party has, in practice, cut social spending?
8/10 deflection, good job avoiding answering the question for the...4th? time.
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Old 12-05-2018, 01:42 PM   #1050
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Can you not give even one example of Kenney having a direct hand in forming fiscally conservative policy?

Strawmen, harsh realities, what are you talking about?

Just provide an example.
I already have and I'm not interested in just playing games with semantics.

If you think Kenney is fiscally liberal, please go ahead and show your thoughts.
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Old 12-05-2018, 01:44 PM   #1051
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8/10 deflection, good job avoiding answering the question for the...4th? time.
Lol. The answers are there for those who want them.

So you admit you made up your assertions regarding the Reform Party and UCP?
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Old 12-05-2018, 01:45 PM   #1052
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Cited examples =/= semantics dude. Just link us something. A drafted document, a signed bill, a colleague on record saying "Jason did this fam".

Anything that proves Kenney's economic prowess.
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Old 12-05-2018, 01:46 PM   #1053
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I already have and I'm not interested in just playing games with semantics.

If you think Kenney is fiscally liberal, please go ahead and show your thoughts.
No you haven’t. You said “instrumental in forming CPC platform,” which is not an example, it’s a loose generality that includes many things outside the economic sphere. People are just asking you to point to one of the apparently “many” policies in the economic sphere he has a hand in. Just one. One policy, one bill, anything.

And nobody here has said Kenney is fiscally liberal (speaking of “strawmen”), so perhaps you’d like to actually just provide one example and stop making this so weirdly difficult.

If your assumption that Kenney is a “true fiscal conservative” is just based on assumptions and zero evidence or any actual history of specific policies he’s contributed to, that’s fine too, just admit it and move on.
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Old 12-05-2018, 01:48 PM   #1054
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this is where debate breaks down. someone makes a claim and is unwilling to back it up with data of any sort. well wtf is the point then? what are we doing here? lets all just make #### up then and throw our hands up in the air when called out on it.
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Old 12-05-2018, 01:49 PM   #1055
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No you haven’t. You said “instrumental in forming CPC platform,” which is not an example, it’s a loose generality that includes many things outside the economic sphere.
Thanks for arguing the semantics of "example".

Once again, not interested in that.

I don't see any point to your posts.
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Old 12-05-2018, 01:53 PM   #1056
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Thanks for arguing the semantics of "example".

Once again, not interested in that.

I don't see any point to your posts.
It’s not the semantics of example, it’s the definition. “Big hand in forming CPC platform” is not an example of anything economic related. That’s not semantics, that’s a fact.

The point of my posts is that if you make a claim like a politician being “a true fiscal conservative” then you should be able to back it up. If you can’t, don’t go claiming strawmen and skirting the issue, just admit you can’t base it off anything. Pretty simple.
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Old 12-05-2018, 02:02 PM   #1057
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It’s not the semantics of example, it’s the definition. “Big hand in forming CPC platform” is not an example of anything economic related. That’s not semantics, that’s a fact.

The point of my posts is that if you make a claim like a politician being “a true fiscal conservative” then you should be able to back it up. If you can’t, don’t go claiming strawmen and skirting the issue, just admit you can’t base it off anything. Pretty simple.
Sorry, but the "PepsiFree rules of posting" don't really apply to anyone but yourself.

You may not believe that the various reporting and well known admissions that Kenney was instrumental in forming CPC platform and policy does not meet your personal hurdle of "evidence" of his being a fiscal conservative, but you've done nothing to disprove that point, nor have you provided any other explanation or reasoning for why it's important. If you don't believe he's a fiscal conservative just say so.

I think it's clear to many that Kenney is a fiscal conservative, will govern as a social moderate, and it will be a major reason he will be our next premier.
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Old 12-05-2018, 02:15 PM   #1058
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But you don’t know of even one fiscally conversative economic bill or policy he was involved in?

I mean, even a link to one of the “various reportings” would be fine, I guess. I assume you can at least provide that...
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Old 12-05-2018, 02:16 PM   #1059
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Other than belonging to a party with "conservative" in the name, what makes it so "clear"?

Why are you so adamant that the burden is on us to prove you wrong when you made the claim?

Where are these "reports" and "admissions" you keep alluding to?

Why keep giving the thread the runaround and just find one measly scrap of evidence that supports your point?
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Old 12-05-2018, 02:23 PM   #1060
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I'm sure any moment now he will transform into a good faith poster.
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