11-13-2018, 09:07 AM
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#181
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick Estrada
Thing is that Backlund has 3 goals just like Neal but Backlund has had had much more opportunities to score. He's probably the most snake bit forward on the team right now that nobody talks about.
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Agreed though it's back to back seasons of that so you have to wonder if the guy just isn't a finisher as well (like Bennett to some degree)
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11-13-2018, 09:33 AM
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#182
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutter_in_law
BAHAHHAHAHAHA.
oh wait, are you actually serious??
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Yup...
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11-13-2018, 09:43 AM
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#183
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 442scotty
Yup...
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Cool.
Absolutely ridiculous to say that no one would take Neal @ 2.875M/year
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotHotHeat
THIS is why people make fun of Edmonton. When will this stupid city figure it out? They continue to kick their own ass every day, it's impossible not to make fun of them.
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11-13-2018, 10:28 AM
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#184
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo
I just don't see that first line being touched ... Lindholm has done a lot to make that line better defensively.
Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Bennett - Neal
Jankowski - Backlund - Frolik
Dube - Ryan - Czarnik
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I second this.
I believe it was you Bingo who pointed out that Bennett's FO metrics have actually increased significantly, I'd like to see how this line would fair in MORE than just a 1 game showing.
The issue with Neal is he's been put all over the place, barely getting enough time to develop any sort of chemistry thus far. His PP time is also lack luster and when they do get him on the 2nd Unit he's utilized in a non shooting role (behind the net) which again isn't ideal. Mind you our 2nd PP unit has been hot garbage since the get go and the amount of zone time they command is almost non existent.
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11-13-2018, 11:35 AM
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#186
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutter_in_law
Cool.
Absolutely ridiculous to say that no one would take Neal @ 2.875M/year
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It’s the term on his salary that is going to scare people. Until he starts producing, why would anyone take on a 5 year commitment at any salary.
It’s hypothetical anyway (hopefully). I imagine he starts producing at some point. And Treliving not going to be that desperate.
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11-13-2018, 11:36 AM
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#187
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Franchise Player
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If you want to try Neal with Gaudreau, I think you put Lindholm at center.
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11-13-2018, 11:52 AM
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#188
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
If you want to try Neal with Gaudreau, I think you put Lindholm at center.
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At the NHL level Lindholm hasn't had much history nor success at centre. Maybe he's tried there at some point but since being drafted he's been almost exclusivly a right winger. Kirk Muller didn't use him down the middle in his rookie year and Peters didn't either after.
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11-17-2018, 10:56 AM
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#189
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Calgary
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Here are my thoughts on Neal
Cons:
- He's not a great passer/playmaker and shouldn't really be carrying the puck unless he has open ice
- His lack of footspeed causes him to lose many races and struggle on the forecheck especially as an F1.
Pros:
- He can really shoot if you set him up
- His strength and IQ allow him to win many board battles
- He's been better defensively than advertised
The call for a long time was Tkachuk-Backlund-Neal instead of 3M or MMA. Obviously you want your best players in your top six, right? And some are calling for Tkachuk-Bennett-Neal because that'd probably be the nastiest NHL line since, like, Legion of Doom. Or at least since Penner-Getzlaf-Perry.
So far, though, Tkachuk-Backlund-Neal has produced mixed results:
47:55 TOI
52.31% FF (Backlund/Tkachuk are 60.60% FF away from Neal)
35.00% SCF ("" 62.30 "")
26.59% HDCF("" 51.82 "")
1 GF
3 GA
The obvious question is whether Tkachuk, like Neal lacks high-end footspeed causing their forechecking to struggle, but I think part of it is also that the line wasn't really able to strike on the rush. Why? A few reasons I might point to would be that
1) We aren't really using the stretch pass cheat code enough.
2) Backlund can carry the puck on, but rarely beats guys one on one and usually just chips it into good areas for his wingers to retrieve
A guy like Frolik (or Czarnik, or Bennett) is able to add some rush elements to that line because they like to carry the puck more. It offsets Tkachuk who is more a one-touch passer on the rush than a rush-driver.
Okay, so that explains why he's been buried on the third line. And on the third line, by far his best results have come with Bennett. What's been lacking on that line is usually that the center is lacking in one area or another, which I've already explored in another thread. The most sensible idea for me is to move Bennett to center and let Czarnik or Dube play LW. I think those are the third lines we need to be looking at. Dube will be a good center someday but that day is not today. Czarnik is also able to help Bennett on faceoffs on the right side, which is why Czarnik-Bennett-Neal is the third line I want to see. But everyone still wants Neal on the top six.
So the next question is: Gaudreau-Neal? I personally think Gaudreau is the guy Neal needs to be playing with to get the most out of Neal. That snipe on Varlamov is what we're paying the big dollars for and it was no surprise Johnny had the setup.
Who centers this line? I think there are four interesting options:
A) Gaudreau-Monahan-Neal
Obviously the potential is there, but Monahan struggles from some of the same issues above as Tkachuk. The risk here is that teams can key in on Gaudreau and also stifle their forechecking. And the early results:
25:46 TOI
34.92% FF
34.76% SCF
38.89% HDCF
1 GF
2 GA
are pretty ugly, if with an asterisk of a small sample size. It's not a line I am sold on being the answer just from a strengths/weaknesses perspective.
B) Gaudreau-Backlund-Neal
This makes sense if you feel confident another line (Tkachuk-Bennett-Frolik?) can carry the checking line duties and be a net positive while yet another line (Dube-Monahan-Lindholm?) can add secondary scoring.
C) Gaudreau-Lindholm-Neal
This is the line that was together in arguably Neal's most "Neal-like" period of the season (the 5 goal third period against Colorado). It looked awesome. Are people willing to make Monahan drive his own line to get Neal going? Is Lindholm able to consistently handle center duties? A lot of question marks but a lot of potential here.
D) Gaudreau-Bennett-Neal
Neal has shown the most chemistry with Bennett so far this season, and Gaudreau has always shown chemistry with Bennett. Adding a sniper to this line could be the ultimate solution, and we'd be able to keep a pretty consistently dangerous top nine of:
Dube-Monahan-Lindholm
Tkachuk-Backlund-Frolik
Gaudreau-Bennett-Neal
Any other options to get Neal going? Well, instead of having Neal or Monahan be the third line driver, what about Matthew Tkachuk? Since people seem convinced Sam Bennett is a winger, we could go with this second line:
Bennett - Backlund - Neal
Have they ever spent time together? In Peters' blender? Of course.
18:04 TOI
61.50 FF%
67.10% SCF
81.87% HDCF
1 GF
0 GA
Not a ton of time, but that could be the second line to get us going. People seem to think Matthew Tkachuk can drive a line, which would give us a third line of note too.
That would give us a top nine along the lines of
Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm
Bennett-Backlund-Neal
Tkachuk-Jankowski-Frolik/Czarnik
Basically my position is Neal can be made to work if Peters gets a bit creative with the lines.
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"May those who accept their fate find happiness. May those who defy it find glory."
Last edited by GranteedEV; 11-17-2018 at 11:06 AM.
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11-17-2018, 11:32 AM
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#190
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Saving the world one gif at a time
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I think this might be worth a try up front...
Gaudreau-Lindholm-Neal
Tkachuk-Monahan-Bennett
Dube-Backlund-Frolik
Czarnik-Ryan/Jankowski-Hathaway
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11-17-2018, 05:54 PM
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#191
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#1 Goaltender
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As bad as Smith has looked for the last 30+ games, there was a time he looked like this team’s MVP. But his career with the Flames has almost seemingly mirrored that of Jonas Hiller. Pretty decent in his first season, but a disaster in his second.
James Neal has been a colossal disappointment so far. We have still yet to see this elite shot which is a concern considering we’re almost a quarter of the way through the season. For the minutes that he has played and the dough he’s getting paid, I’d argue he’s been the worst forward on the team. Guy can’t seem to string together the most basic of plays, add in the turnovers, the bad passes, the penalties and the contract has a chance to be a gigantic albatross. If he doesn’t figure it by the deadline, I’d seriously consider trading him for an equally disappointing contract.
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11-17-2018, 08:19 PM
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#192
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: CGY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper
James Neal has been a colossal disappointment so far. We have still yet to see this elite shot which is a concern considering we’re almost a quarter of the way through the season. For the minutes that he has played and the dough he’s getting paid, I’d argue he’s been the worst forward on the team. Guy can’t seem to string together the most basic of plays, add in the turnovers, the bad passes, the penalties and the contract has a chance to be a gigantic albatross. If he doesn’t figure it by the deadline, I’d seriously consider trading him for an equally disappointing contract.
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Frolik - 18 GP, 7 goals, +4
Neal - 19GP, 3 goals, 1 assist, -4
But it's Frolik on the 4th line!?
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So far, this is the oldest I've been.
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11-17-2018, 11:41 PM
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#193
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale
Frolik - 18 GP, 7 goals, +4
Neal - 19GP, 3 goals, 1 assist, -4
But it's Frolik on the 4th line!?
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Personally I’d love a trade. Give him back to Vegas at a discount pr whoever, I don’t really care. His game was slightly better tonight, but that 2nd goal allowed was on him. Awful attempt at a risky pass and he obviously didn’t read the play well because Gio was pinching in deep and he needed to make a safer play or execute that pass. The additional cap space and inserting Czarnik in the lineup instead wouldn’t hurt us imo.
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11-17-2018, 11:44 PM
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#194
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: STH since 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluck
Honestly, the similarities are just to close to overlook. Smith reminds me completely of Elliott and Neal reminds of the "I have no care factor and I got a big contract so I'm going to coast around" Troy Brouwer. Are we going to keep saying "Relax, it's early" until it's December? Really disappointing so far to watch those two players so far this year. I hope they can turn it around.
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Yes Neal is quickly becoming a Troy Brouwer 2.0 and Smith has lost his mojo od last season.
Rittich hopefully can just keep getting better.
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11-18-2018, 12:22 AM
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#195
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Crash and Bang Winger
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Bowling Green, KY via Massena, NY
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I said it before, but why is anybody calling for Neal on either the first or second lines? He hasn't done squat and if we paid 5.5 mil for a guy who can't produce anywhere he is put, why reward him? He's paid to shoot, that's what we lacked last year. A guy who can snipe. He has 1 snipe in 20 games. On a 4 on 4 tonight he tried to make an incredibly stupid pass to the front of the net that ended up in the back of our net. Really? Com'on guys, he doesn't deserve minutes anywhere near the top two lines.
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11-18-2018, 12:24 AM
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#196
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JT96912
I said it before, but why is anybody calling for Neal on either the first or second lines? He hasn't done squat and if we paid 5.5 mil for a guy who can't produce anywhere he is put, why reward him? He's paid to shoot, that's what we lacked last year. A guy who can snipe. He has 1 snipe in 20 games. On a 4 on 4 tonight he tried to make an incredibly stupid pass to the front of the net that ended up in the back of our net. Really? Com'on guys, he doesn't deserve minutes anywhere near the top two lines.
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That "stupid pass" would have been a sure goal - his man was wide open. BUt it got deflected. It was a standard pass to the front of the net.
The guy was all over and had 5-6 shots. He hemmed in the Oilers twice for long spells at a critical time. He had a good game.
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11-18-2018, 12:25 AM
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#197
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Jul 2017
Exp:
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I don't think Neal has been the player we thought we were getting, but he hasn't been anywhere near Brouwer bad. And I think calling Smith as bad as Elliot isn't fair to Elliot at all.
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11-18-2018, 12:35 AM
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#198
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Crash and Bang Winger
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Bowling Green, KY via Massena, NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM
That "stupid pass" would have been a sure goal - his man was wide open. BUt it got deflected. It was a standard pass to the front of the net.
The guy was all over and had 5-6 shots. He hemmed in the Oilers twice for long spells at a critical time. He had a good game.
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So we are judging players by shot attempts now? Get a grip. D was pinching down on that play. You run it up the boards, not try a pass out front. Hockey 101. Man I swear, if Smith hasn't been so craptastick everyone would be calling out Neal. Yes, we needed a sniper. Yes, we needed an all around player. We got that in Lindholm. Do you play fantasy hockey? Does Anyone in your league own Neal? No. Does anyone own Lindholm? ABSOLUTELY. You know why? Because one puts up points, and one doesn't. Cut and dry, Neal absolutely sucks for any money, not to mention the money he's getting paid
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11-18-2018, 02:03 AM
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#200
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache
I like how Mike Smith congratulated Rittich.
He does not accept his abysmal performance as normal.
Seems like he is a good part of the team still
Good
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Yeah, there is no question about Smith's character. He has not been playing well, but he shouldn't be villainized.
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"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
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