Is Mike Smith the new Brian Elliot and is James Neal the new Troy Brouwer? - Page 9 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Toonage · 11-13-2018, 07:07 AM

What's the deal with James Neal?

(Was going to make a new thread just for that sweet tag line)

They had a lengthy discussion about this on the radio this morning, and it was hard to argue with any of it really.

Here is a player that since almost day 1 has looked disinterested, not engaged and clearly not in favor with his coach.

My question after a few weeks was, "does James Neal even want to be here?" The Flames were the highest bidder, so of course he took the money but does he really want to be here?

Is that reflected in his play? Did the coach just not like what he saw from the get go and dug his heels in the sand on Neal?

Is Neal pouting and only wants to play with Gaudreau, who I have to assume was suggested he'd be linemates with during the courting process.

Is this salvageable? It seems silly to suggest that things might be reaching a boiling point a month into the season yet here we are. National media is picking up on this now too.

That benching may have caused a bigger stir than anyone anticipated.

Erick Estrada · 11-13-2018, 07:47 AM

I'm listening to the radio right now and Warrener and the crew is defending him. Saying that he didn't look bad in preseason and certainly not anything that showed he should have been relegated to 3rd line but that's where he ended up. They said they are pretty sure when he signed Treliving wasn't promising him little time on the powerplay and 3rd line duty. They also said the team has gone out of their way to be protective of Smith who has been outright bad at times. Said Frolik spent one night in the press box but has been in the coach's good grace ever since and Neal seems to not get that and said they probably can't blame him for not being happy with his situation.

My opinion is that Peters right now isn't a fan of him for whatever reason which to me is puzzling as I have to imagine Treliving got in touch with him before free agency to discuss their options. When you commit this term and salary to a player and bury him it's never going to go well as Neal has scored over 20 goals in every season he's played over 40 games so it's not like Treliving overpaid a depth guy like Brouwer here where they crossed their fingers he could be a 20 goal guy. Neal is the very definition of consistent 20 goal scorer. To me it seems like something Peters is going to have to get over because Neal will probably be a Flame longer than he will and considering the lack of scoring depth this team has it just doesn't make sense to bench one of the proven goal scorers on the team.

Toonage · 11-13-2018, 07:51 AM

Lindholm has done so well on the top line, but of late they have gone a bit quiet. Do you move Lindholm off that line to try and jump start Neal while you're at home and have the luxury of line matching or do you keep that top line together because you know they're just as likely to turn it back on?

One thing that I've found bizarre is that Neal, who has a history of gelling with pretty much anyone he has plays with has been unable to find a spark with darn near everyone that isn't Gaudreau. That sort of puts me in the "he's pouting" camp. How can someone that talented not find a groove with Backlund & Tkachuk? We can try pointing to potential injury with Backlund as to why he might be off and difficult to play with but Frolik seems fine there still, and Tkachuk is still Tkachuk.

Huntingwhale · 11-13-2018, 07:56 AM

I'm not worried yet. I'd be interested to see his season split, if he's more of a 2nd half player. I could be wrong, but I remember him in the past turning it on at that point.

Players take a while to adapt to new teams. Hamilton, Hamonic and now Neal. I'm not ready to bring out the whip quite yet.

Erick Estrada · 11-13-2018, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toonage

Lindholm has done so well on the top line, but of late they have gone a bit quiet. Do you move Lindholm off that line to try and jump start Neal while you're at home and have the luxury of line matching or do you keep that top line together because you know they're just as likely to turn it back on?

One thing that I've found bizarre is that Neal, who has a history of gelling with pretty much anyone he has plays with has been unable to find a spark with darn near everyone that isn't Gaudreau. That sort of puts me in the "he's pouting" camp. How can someone that talented not find a groove with Backlund & Tkachuk? We can try pointing to potential injury with Backlund as to why he might be off and difficult to play with but Frolik seems fine there still, and Tkachuk is still Tkachuk.

Well Frolik has been on that line for three years now and it's a stretch to imagine that Neil can find that same chemistry in two games. I'm still not a fan of Frolik in the top 6 and I have to imagine when Treliving makes the trade for Lindholm and signing of Neal that he had Frolik penciled in as a 3rd line winger. Keeping the 3M line together all season last year is one of the reasons Gulutzan lost his job so I have to admit I'm puzzled that Peters is going with this line as Backlund himself is really struggling to bury some prime scoring chances and I feel the team is wasting Tkachuk's offensive skills playing with guys that aren't finishers.

Sutter_in_law · 11-13-2018, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Well Frolik has been on that line for three years now and it's a stretch to imagine that Neil can find that same chemistry in two games. I'm still not a fan of Frolik in the top 6 and I have to imagine when Treliving makes the trade for Lindholm and signing of Neal that he had Frolik penciled in as a 3rd line winger. Keeping the 3M line together all season last year is one of the reasons Gulutzan lost his job so I have to admit I'm puzzled that Peters is going with this line as Backlund himself is really struggling to bury some prime scoring chances and I feel the team is wasting Tkachuk's offensive skills playing with guys that aren't finishers.

I agree.

I'd like to see:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Tkachuk
Bennett - Lindholm - Neal
Dube - Backlund - Frolik
Hathaway - Ryan/Jankowski - Czarnik

I probably left somone off, I haven'd had my morning coffee yet...

Saqe · 11-13-2018, 08:27 AM

These big free agents often have slow starts in their new clubs, especially older players.

It is worrying though that almost all recent older UFAs who have gotten their last big deal have been massive disappointments like Ladd, Backes etc.

Bingo · 11-13-2018, 08:30 AM

When you watch the games though is it any surprise? I think they've tried.

The season began with Neal getting a look with Gaudreau and Monahan, but they developed zero chemistry and it didn't work.

Czarnik looked good in camp so he got a start with the 3M line until Frolik came in and that line popped.

They tried Neal with Backlund and Tkachuk but it wasn't very good in the game in San Jose so they broke it up.

The best chemistry he's had has been with Bennett and Ryan to date, but they just can't score.

Takes time to find a home on a roster ... I do think some of you are on to something by moving Backlund and Frolik to a different line than Tkachuk. I think even Bennett there would work and it wouldn't be a huge step back in energy/snarl.

Textcritic · 11-13-2018, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Well Frolik has been on that line for three years now and it's a stretch to imagine that Neil can find that same chemistry in two games. I'm still not a fan of Frolik in the top 6 and I have to imagine when Treliving makes the trade for Lindholm and signing of Neal that he had Frolik penciled in as a 3rd line winger. Keeping the 3M line together all season last year is one of the reasons Gulutzan lost his job so I have to admit I'm puzzled that Peters is going with this line as Backlund himself is really struggling to bury some prime scoring chances and I feel the team is wasting Tkachuk's offensive skills playing with guys that aren't finishers.

It’s not like Peters has been stubbornly cramming this combination into every lineup game in and out; he has spent a good chunk of the first 20 games mixing players on that line. And it is no mystery why Frolik continues to get looks there: it’s because Tkachuk and Backlund have looked their absolute best this year when 3M is reunited.

I thought Neal looked okay in the LA game on line 2, but I also get why he was taken off of it in SJ.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Toonage · 11-13-2018, 08:37 AM

I'd try this out. Even for just a period. Not just to see if playing with Gaudreau at least gives Neal some jump, but also to see if you can't get Bennett going and give the 4L more looks too.

Gaudreau-Monahan-Neal
Tkachuk-Backlund-Frolik
Bennett-Ryan-Lindholm
Dube-Jankowski-Czarnik

Sutter_in_law · 11-13-2018, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toonage

I'd try this out. Even for just a period. Not just to see if playing with Gaudreau at least gives Neal some jump, but also to see if you can't get Bennett going and give the 4L more looks too.

Gaudreau-Monahan-Neal
Tkachuk-Backlund-Frolik
Bennett-Ryan-Lindholm
Dube-Jankowski-Czarnik

I just don't see any reason that Lindholm should be dropped to the 3rd line though.

Bingo · 11-13-2018, 08:41 AM

I just don't see that first line being touched ... Lindholm has done a lot to make that line better defensively.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Bennett - Neal
Jankowski - Backlund - Frolik
Dube - Ryan - Czarnik

Toonage · 11-13-2018, 08:41 AM

^^ Trying to get Bennett on the board. Lindholm has had the hot hand, so while you take a period to see if you can spark Neal you try the same with Bennett.

Erick Estrada · 11-13-2018, 08:42 AM

Thing is that Backlund has 3 goals just like Neal but Backlund has had had much more opportunities to score. He's probably the most snake bit forward on the team right now that nobody talks about.

Toonage · 11-13-2018, 08:42 AM

But Backlund provides defensive play too. If he isn't scoring he serves other important purposes.

Sutter_in_law · 11-13-2018, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bingo

I just don't see that first line being touched ... Lindholm has done a lot to make that line better defensively.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Bennett - Neal
Jankowski - Backlund - Frolik
Dube - Ryan - Czarnik

I could get on board with this, even though I have preferred Bennett on the wing.

Toonage · 11-13-2018, 08:46 AM

Bennett is great on draws, I wouldn't object to seeing him get a spin at C again either.

GioforPM · 11-13-2018, 08:50 AM

In one of the numerous Bennett discussions someone said to give him a few games with Backlund and Tkachuk to work out some chemistry. Frankly, I think Neal probably should get the same amount of leeway. He really hasn't had a lot of time with any line. A shooter like him needs a certain amount of time with the passer, in order to get the feeds just right.

442scotty · 11-13-2018, 09:04 AM

At this point Neal isn’t even tradable even if the flames ate salary. Another terrible over the hill signing. Maybe Treliving thought they would all be studs after hitting a home run extending Giordano. Vegas not resigning Neal should have been a red flag I suppose.

Sutter_in_law · 11-13-2018, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 442scotty

At this point Neal isn’t even tradable even if the flames ate salary. Another terrible over the hill signing. Maybe Treliving thought they would all be studs after hitting a home run extending Giordano. Vegas not resigning Neal should have been a red flag I suppose.

BAHAHHAHAHAHA.

oh wait, are you actually serious??