Arena Negotiation Discussion v2

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Freeway

CMLC managing the development was seen by a lot on council as a big plus, as they had managed the library and much of the development all around the East Village.


Also, Nenshi says in the article that the August 1 groundbreaking likely won't happen on that date.

But probably seen poorly by a private business trying to maximize profit.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Freeway

CMLC managing the development was seen by a lot on council as a big plus, as they had managed the library and much of the development all around the East Village.


Also, Nenshi says in the article that the August 1 groundbreaking likely won't happen on that date.

August 1 2031 maybe.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by Freeway

CMLC managing the development was seen by a lot on council as a big plus, as they had managed the library and much of the development all around the East Village.


Also, Nenshi says in the article that the August 1 groundbreaking likely won't happen on that date.

Not having CMLC overseeing the project would be a dealbreaker if I was on council. Actually it's a dealbreaker being a taxpayer.

I don't trust CSEC one bit.

[Freeway]

This is entirely based on no inside information, but my read is they need to come up with a plan to address the budget issue - which might be as simple as waiting until the spring when (theoretically) steel and lumber prices normalize at pre-pandemic levels. As much as "let's wait!" is a dumb sounding plan, it might be the prudent move.


Anything else is basically window-dressing: if you don't have the money to build what you want to build, who manages the project doesn't matter.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Freeway

This is entirely based on no inside information, but my read is they need to come up with a plan to address the budget issue - which might be as simple as waiting until the spring when (theoretically) steel and lumber prices normalize at pre-pandemic levels. As much as "let's wait!" is a dumb sounding plan, it might be the prudent move.


Anything else is basically window-dressing: if you don't have the money to build what you want to build, who manages the project doesn't matter.

Very much agreed.

The cost of materials at the moment is insane and would completely destroy a budget. Its not like we need this stuff immediately so waiting a little isnt such a big deal.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Freeway

This is entirely based on no inside information, but my read is they need to come up with a plan to address the budget issue - which might be as simple as waiting until the spring when (theoretically) steel and lumber prices normalize at pre-pandemic levels. As much as "let's wait!" is a dumb sounding plan, it might be the prudent move.


Anything else is basically window-dressing: if you don't have the money to build what you want to build, who manages the project doesn't matter.

Not that I disagree but what's a probable time frame for material costs to normalize back to pre-pandemic levels? Is it possible this could years?

[Senator Clay Davis]

Material cost increases are only a part of the problem, lead times are also getting to be absolutely ridiculous. There are materials the company I work for would usually get in a week or 10 days pre-pandemic, and now it's 3 months+. A lot of mills cut back production or even straight up shut down during COVID. It's ramping up again, but so is demand, so it's creating a bottleneck on top of the price increases.

[RM14]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

has anyone bothered to ask the University of Calgary if they have the money to cover their share of the cost?

This would be similar to the University district no? Take empty unused land, faciliate development, and actually earn money from their assets.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by rm14

this would be similar to the university district no? Take empty unused land, faciliate development, and actually earn money from their assets.

Yes, this was said at the meeting yesterday...

https://twitter.com/user/status/1404472236652646404


It's also important to keep in mind that this is only a conceptual plan for what could be done in the area. It doesn't take cost, funding, or schedule into account. The final form of what gets built (and any renovation of McMahon) will almost-certainly look nothing like these concepts. What they allow is for people to visualize what could be done and what the overall vision for the area is.

Gian-Carlo Carra made a good point on Twitter today that having a master plan like that for the East Village was integral in moving that project along and getting buy-in on it.


You can see the original East Village master plan here: http://www.calgaryherald.com/pdf/Eas..._ExSummary.pdf

That looks nothing like what the East Village looks like today, but we likely don't get the East Village to where it is today without it.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by Freeway

This is entirely based on no inside information, but my read is they need to come up with a plan to address the budget issue - which might be as simple as waiting until the spring when (theoretically) steel and lumber prices normalize at pre-pandemic levels. As much as "let's wait!" is a dumb sounding plan, it might be the prudent move.


Anything else is basically window-dressing: if you don't have the money to build what you want to build, who manages the project doesn't matter.

they have dropped over 40% in the last 5 weeks. I don't think this is the issue.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by getbak

Yes, this was said at the meeting yesterday...

https://twitter.com/user/status/1404472236652646404


It's also important to keep in mind that this is only a conceptual plan for what could be done in the area. It doesn't take cost, funding, or schedule into account. The final form of what gets built (and any renovation of McMahon) will almost-certainly look nothing like these concepts. What they allow is for people to visualize what could be done and what the overall vision for the area is.

Gian-Carlo Carra made a good point on Twitter today that having a master plan like that for the East Village was integral in moving that project along and getting buy-in on it.


You can see the original East Village master plan here: http://www.calgaryherald.com/pdf/Eas..._ExSummary.pdf

That looks nothing like what the East Village looks like today, but we likely don't get the East Village to where it is today without it.

And you don't get it off the ground without including the Bow Building magically added into the CRL and stretching out the East Village boundary to include that area.

[sureLoss]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1407494304751312900

[sureLoss]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1407511796198543361

[Parallex]

They better not be value engineering out the street facing retail screen or removing CMLC. Cut the practice rink if anything.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Parallex

They better not be value engineering out the street facing retail screen or removing CMLC. Cut the practice rink if anything.

I know some have a soft spot for the Dome but I consider it an outdated, eye sore of a facility. I hope they don't cheap out on the exterior and make it like like Rogers Place that's going to look outdated architecture in a decade.

[bdubbs]

I hope they keep it in line with the vision they have going for the East Village area. Our library is beautiful to look at.

[Since1984]

Originally Posted by bdubbs

I hope they keep it in line with the vision they have going for the East Village area. Our library is beautiful to look at.

And so is Studio Bell, the new BMO centre expansion. Keep in line with all those and we will be good for decades.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I know some have a soft spot for the Dome but I consider it an outdated, eye sore of a facility. I hope they don't cheap out on the exterior and make it like like Rogers Place that's going to look outdated architecture in a decade.

Don’t kill the messenger:

https://drive4five.blog/2021/02/24/n...l-matt-becker/

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Don’t kill the messenger:

https://drive4five.blog/2021/02/24/n...l-matt-becker/

Who the hell is this guy, and what does he know for arena design and aesthetics?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Who the hell is this guy, and what does he know for arena design and aesthetics?

No idea. I was wondering what NHL arena exteriors were thought of highly and googled away. Me, I’ve seen a bunch on his list and I can’t agree. I like Vegas, Nashville, LA.