What in Bennett’s progression (steadily down) suggests that he is destined to be a scoring player at any position? At this point I’m just hoping he can be an ok fourth line grinder, which he isn’t at this point. It sucks but it is what it is. This #### about it being Gulutzans fault is hilarious given how well Tkachuk has developed under him.
Player development is not linear. In terms of point production Sam has struggled this year, but at 21 his trajectory as a professional is far from determined. Bear in mind Sam is the second youngest player on this team. Patience is an important part of NHL success. This team is young and a lot is being asked of the Flames young talent. It is fitting you mention Tkachuk. We have been spoiled by a series of young players who have dominated at a young age. Still, this does not mean that when a young player is struggling that they are destined to be a bubble roster player at best. At moments Sam has shown talent in both zones. Maturity and experience will lend itself well to the improvement of Bennetts game.
Last edited by TheIronMaiden; 02-10-2018 at 12:16 AM.
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I would be shopping him in a package deal for some proven talent at this point. We are wasting a very good season by quite a few players. I think another impact forward could do wonders for getting us out of the bubble group and comfortably in the playoffs over the next few years. Bundle Bennett, Gillies and some D prospects and see what we can get at the deadline. I just really feel that he needs a change of scenery. You cant even say he displays a good 2 way game like Backlund did at his age to make you want to hang onto him. He really hasn't shown anything.
Sam Bennett is David Moss v2.
You get what you get.
Time to move on with it.
Sam Bennett is 21 years old.
David Moss made it to the NHL at 25 years old. Mikael Backlund was about 25/26 when he figured things out at the NHL level. Hell, what about Giordano? Left for the KHL at 23, looked legit back in the NHL at 26.
This fanbase is so fickle and impatient. Again, Sam Bennett is struggling for sure. But he was also our best player in December, leading the team in points for that month. He's also been our best even strength forward in both playoffs he's been in. Giving up on him would come back to bite us in the ass big time.
Last edited by AC; 02-10-2018 at 01:17 AM.
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I think the organization failed Bennett. A whole season of suck and the highest pick in Flames history and he was the prize.
Just looking back at him fresh out of junior and he looks like a completely different player. Much more confident with his moves. He looks quicker too... maybe a bit too many bench presses and bicep curls?
We did not draft a bust, but we might have developed one. He should have been groomed to be a future star. Killer comparisons get thrown out all the time, but one I really liked was Toews. Fast, slick hands, 2 way threat and an allstar. He could have been that (and he may still become that, he isn't a finished product). Besides playing with Backlund where he saw his most success, he's never really not been the best player on his own line... Or it's always been close. This season he's seen nearly 50% of his even strength ice time with Janko & Hathaway. Hathaway is a fourth liner on most teams and Jankowski is an even less experienced rookie. Last season it was Brouwer & Versteeg. I strongly believe Bennett needed (and still now needs) his Hudler. Look what he did for Monahan and Gaudreau. Tkachuk got Backlund and got to stay there. The only move this organization did to help in Bennett's development was bringing in Brouwer... Other than that he's been playing with the leftovers since his rookie season ended.
Bennett was a better player than Draisaitl coming out of junior.
Here Bennett is ranked ahead of Leon by every single main scouting service covering the 2014 draft)
Draisaitl looked like a mess and had to sent back to the WHL after falling flat on his face. Bennett returned from a major shoulder injury, played 20 games in the OHL and jumped into the NHL playoffs and not only not looked out of place, but he was exceptional. That next season the Oilers were smart and glued Draisaitl to Taylor Hall's hip. Bennett was solid too in his campaign beside Backlund. If that wasn't enough, Draisaitl then got an even better linemate the following season in McGenerational, while Bennett was downgraded to Brouwer. Bennett aside from a few stints with Gaudreau here and there, never has had the luxury of playing besides an elite linemate.
Some players can come from junior and be impact players, and some need to be lead in that direction. I truly believe Sam Bennett had that potential, he just didn't go to the right team that was able to help him utilize it.
Last edited by Love; 02-10-2018 at 07:33 AM.
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I still think he is salvaged, and I know the prescription. more cowbell, and by cowbell i mean back on the Backlund line. Long shot prediction, i bet Bennett is our playoff MVP.
Gaudreau-Monahan-Tkachuck
Bennett-Backlund-Frolik
Ferland-Janko-Versteeg/Hathaway
Roberts didn’t score much, and took a lot of stupid penalties in his early days as a Flame. I used to think Bennett might develop into a Gary Roberts style of player, but I’m losing faith. Don’t think the Flames should give up yet, though.
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I have seen some posters say that "look at Backlund when having patience". I'm not sure if those circumstances apply to the new NHL. Some of the reasons that Backlund was given a long leash was that the flames had zero center prospects in the system. Hell they didn't have any real forward prospects that could come close to NHL. Back when Backlund was the youngster in NHL it was more norm to have your NHL roster full of vets. Now the NHL seems to be going younger and younger every year. I don't think teams going forward are going to be giving prospects 6-7 years to get their stuff together.
I would also like to add that being patient is a 2way street. Yes flames should be patient with Bennett but he is also going to have to be patient going forward if he wants to remain a flame. I could easily see Bennett and his agent asking for a trade this summer. He might feel he needs a fresh start. What do they see as the long term future with the flames? Even if he starts playing well, he is never going to dethrone Johnny Hockey or Tkachuk on LW. I don't see him as a center and even if he was, he has a long way to go to make it as a top 6 center man. If he does put it togther in the next year or 2, is there even going to be any money left to keep him long term? Johnny, Gio, Mony, Hamilton have been paid. Backs could be getting paid pretty soon and they better be backing up the money trucks for Tkachuk in a years time. ( Tkachuk is my favourite who i see as future captain). Doesnt leave much for Bennett.
once you make it to the pros, the differences between good and great comes down to confidence.
imo at least, this has been a real struggle for Bennett. It was everyone's hope that Janko proving himself at center would give SB a talented line mate while also relieving him of center duties... it seemed to work in December, but it seems like that initial success has faded.
its tough, because i think the best thing to do would be to put Bennett on the 3m line and Tkachuk on Janko's line...this isn't meant to be a permanent change, just something to jumpstart Janko and SB's confidence levels (say 5 games or so)...
not sure that the team can afford to do that when fighting for a playoff spot... but i do think SB needs some kind of positive spark.
Trading SB now is a non starter: you'd get pennies on the dollar or another team's reclamation project... i think it'd be better to hold onto him but try to give better opportunities to success.
once you make it to the pros, the differences between good and great comes down to confidence.
imo at least, this has been a real struggle for Bennett. It was everyone's hope that Janko proving himself at center would give SB a talented line mate while also relieving him of center duties... it seemed to work in December, but it seems like that initial success has faded.
its tough, because i think the best thing to do would be to put Bennett on the 3m line and Tkachuk on Janko's line...this isn't meant to be a permanent change, just something to jumpstart Janko and SB's confidence levels (say 5 games or so)...
not sure that the team can afford to do that when fighting for a playoff spot... but i do think SB needs some kind of positive spark.
Trading SB now is a non starter: you'd get pennies on the dollar or another team's reclamation project... i think it'd be better to hold onto him but try to give better opportunities to success.
No thanks,
You don't earn your way up the lines by sucking and taking lazy offensive zone penalties.
Find a different team if you want a spot gifted to you.
I have seen some posters say that "look at Backlund when having patience". I'm not sure if those circumstances apply to the new NHL. Some of the reasons that Backlund was given a long leash was that the flames had zero center prospects in the system. Hell they didn't have any real forward prospects that could come close to NHL. Back when Backlund was the youngster in NHL it was more norm to have your NHL roster full of vets. Now the NHL seems to be going younger and younger every year. I don't think teams going forward are going to be giving prospects 6-7 years to get their stuff together.
I would also like to add that being patient is a 2way street. Yes flames should be patient with Bennett but he is also going to have to be patient going forward if he wants to remain a flame. I could easily see Bennett and his agent asking for a trade this summer. He might feel he needs a fresh start. What do they see as the long term future with the flames? Even if he starts playing well, he is never going to dethrone Johnny Hockey or Tkachuk on LW. I don't see him as a center and even if he was, he has a long way to go to make it as a top 6 center man. If he does put it togther in the next year or 2, is there even going to be any money left to keep him long term? Johnny, Gio, Mony, Hamilton have been paid. Backs could be getting paid pretty soon and they better be backing up the money trucks for Tkachuk in a years time. ( Tkachuk is my favourite who i see as future captain). Doesnt leave much for Bennett.
Agree with your post here. Patience is required on both sides.
I'm not sure if the Backlund comparisons make much sense. Backlund showed signs of being strong on the defensive side of the puck almost from the point he entered the league. He was an advanced stats darling long before the offence came.
If you wanted to point out good examples of what Sam could become, I think you would look at other late blooming top 5 picks like Blake wheeler, kyle Turris, or Nino Nieteridder. Common theme here is all we're traded from their draft teams. But let's also not forget Cody Hodgson was once considered the best prospect in hockey.
That said, Sam has displayed, fairly consistently, that he looks like a fringe NHLer. I don't think it's a stretch to say if he wasn't picked 4th overall, he wouldn't be in he league. He has frequently hurt the team with really poor penalties. It is not unusual at all to see Sam behind the play, out of position, taking stick infractions either in the offensive or defensive zone. That coupled with his seemingly neutered offensive abilities, you have a player who is lost. It's one thing to have littler or no impact, it's another to hurt the team. If this is what Bennett is, it won't matter what team he plays for, who his coach is, or who his line mates are, he won't be emerging as an impact player at this level or even in the NHL at all.
Very disappointing to see how this has turned out, but it might not be too late. I'm certain the hockey ops department has spent a lot of time evaluating their options with this player. To me, it looks like it's broken. This looks like a lose lose for the Flames. I'm not sure how you 'fix' him within your own system other than tell Ferland he's no longer needed on the first line (even though he's earned that spot) and play the living hell out of Sam there and hope he's not a boat anchor that sinks your first line & playoff chances for the year. Or you sell low on the player and get a similar return that Lazar and Sven got. You walk away and hope he doesn't turn into Kyle Turris somewhere else.
Maybe it's time to bring in a 'marrage counsellor' of sorts and see if the relationship can continue. As for the next game, Sam can/should/deserves to take a turn in the press box.
AC's video clearly shows the Bennett we all hoped he would be, I firmly believe that his development is what hurt him most (along with the shoulder injury)
I think Hartley utilized him a lot better, let Sam play to his strengths and it looked like he was going to turn into an impact player. Since GG took over Sam has without a doubt struggled, but is it a player problem or a development/coaching problem?
I truly believe giving up on him now will haunt us in the future, there's a reason he was ranked #1 N.A pick in his draft class, I just think he's been saddled with poor line-mates for the majority of his career so far and when he has had a chance along side Johnny they've shown some pretty solid chemistry. Everyone likes to bag on Sam and at times its hard to argue against it, but outside of the first 2 weeks Janko was up he's struggled just as much if not more, the whole line is basically irrelevant out there and yet GG continues to roll the same lines.
I think Sam needs more confidence and a LONG shot with better line-mates before we give up on him. Not 2-3 shifts, not 1 game he needs 5-6 games playing with other players who can put up points.
Shots - 7th on team
Shooting percentage - 10th
Rush Attempts - 2nd (Backlund 1, ahead of Gaudreau)
Rebounds created - 1st (Frolik and Giordano)
Minor Penalties - 2nd (Hamilton 1st)
Penalties Drawn - 3rd (Tkachuk and Gaudreau ahead)
Penalties Differential - 8th (flat)
Giveways - 7th with only 11, Gaudreau has 46
Takeaways - 2nd to Backlund
Give/Take Diff - 1st with +23 (Backlund +20)
Face Offs - 54%
The guy is doing lots of little things right. Stay the course
You have to squint pretty hard to find the encouraging signs with Sam right now. I'm not sure if any of this amounts to a hill of beans compared to the 15 game pointless streaks, poor positional play, and mind blowing bad penalties. It's getting hard to have faith in the player.
I think the organization failed Bennett. A whole season of suck and the highest pick in Flames history and he was the prize.
Just looking back at him fresh out of junior and he looks like a completely different player. Much more confident with his moves. He looks quicker too... maybe a bit too many bench presses and bicep curls?
We did not draft a bust, but we might have developed one. He should have been groomed to be a future star. Killer comparisons get thrown out all the time, but one I really liked was Toews. Fast, slick hands, 2 way threat and an allstar. He could have been that (and he may still become that, he isn't a finished product). Besides playing with Backlund where he saw his most success, he's never really not been the best player on his own line... Or it's always been close. This season he's seen nearly 50% of his even strength ice time with Janko & Hathaway. Hathaway is a fourth liner on most teams and Jankowski is an even less experienced rookie. Last season it was Brouwer & Versteeg. I strongly believe Bennett needed (and still now needs) his Hudler. Look what he did for Monahan and Gaudreau. Tkachuk got Backlund and got to stay there. The only move this organization did to help in Bennett's development was bringing in Brouwer... Other than that he's been playing with the leftovers since his rookie season ended.
Bennett was a better player than Draisaitl coming out of junior.
Here Bennett is ranked ahead of Leon by every single main scouting service covering the 2014 draft)
Draisaitl looked like a mess and had to sent back to the WHL after falling flat on his face. Bennett returned from a major shoulder injury, played 20 games in the OHL and jumped into the NHL playoffs and not only not looked out of place, but he was exceptional. That next season the Oilers were smart and glued Draisaitl to Taylor Hall's hip. Bennett was solid too in his campaign beside Backlund. If that wasn't enough, Draisaitl then got an even better linemate the following season in McGenerational, while Bennett was downgraded to Brouwer. Bennett aside from a few stints with Gaudreau here and there, never has had the luxury of playing besides an elite linemate.
Some players can come from junior and be impact players, and some need to be lead in that direction. I truly believe Sam Bennett had that potential, he just didn't go to the right team that was able to help him utilize it.
There's something to be said about Reinhardt and Draisatl going ahead of Bennett despite Bennett being ranked higher by scouting agencies, and it's not because the panthers, Oilers and the sabres are a collection of morons. (Ekblad was most likely to go first). Obviously there were some doubts with the three teams that had a chance to pick him.
Clearly Draisaitl is the best of the three and for all we know the Flames may have had Draisatl higher on their list.
As far as Sam needing a 'hudler' to help his development, how about Tatar? Can the Flames offer a couple prospects, seeing as they don't have picks to offer up?
Tatar-Jankowski-Bennett?
Is Tatar that much of an upgrade on Versteeg (whom I assume will play with Janko-Bennett when he gets back)?
I like the idea of moving Brouwer up to the Backlund line, where he was reasonably effective and bumping Frolik down to play with Janko and Sam. I think that's how we'd get the most out of our players.
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David Moss made it to the NHL at 25 years old. Mikael Backlund was about 25/26 when he figured things out at the NHL level. Hell, what about Giordano? Left for the KHL at 23, looked legit back in the NHL at 26.
This fanbase is so fickle and impatient. Again, Sam Bennett is struggling for sure. But he was also our best player in December, leading the team in points for that month. He's also been our best even strength forward in both playoffs he's been in. Giving up on him would come back to bite us in the ass big time.
What if a package for him landed us a Mike Hoffman? Guy could be a big help for us this season and the next 2. I don’t know how Bennett’s development will go into the future, but I’m not sure he’ll find the consistency he needs to be a legit top 6 forward until much later in his career where we likely won’t benefit from.
What if a package for him landed us a Mike Hoffman? Guy could be a big help for us this season and the next 2. I don’t know how Bennett’s development will go into the future, but I’m not sure he’ll find the consistency he needs to be a legit top 6 forward until much later in his career where we likely won’t benefit from.
I think that's absolutely a valid consideration. I'm just tired of seeing people call him garbage and worthless, while assuming this is his peak at 21.
