The trials and tribulations of Glen Gulutzan

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by RichKlit

I don't agree with baclunds socks but I do believe this site doesn't like dissenting views and posters are quickly dog piled for seemingly holding different views or something like grammar on a message board.

This seems to be happening more often. If you want to see it in action try and post anything pro-trump in the American politics thread.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by RichKlit

I don't agree with baclunds socks but I do believe this site doesn't like dissenting views and posters are quickly dog piled for seemingly holding different views or something like grammar on a message board.

Lets give some credit where it is due too, if you go back through a lot of backlund socks posts "for example", you will see a lot of posters giving well thought out responses but those views often being ignored only to have that person post the same thing over and over. I don't disagree with you at times there does seem to be a pile on effect but I did notice mods were quick to address it and asked posters to be civil towards each other. This is an excellent forum with some exceptional posters and I love the way some people commit the time to give quality updates and contributions on a daily, weekly, yearly bases. The structured presentations, and contributions by so many committed people really adds to the quality of this site.

My personal beef with this forum is that I and many others try to post insightful things and contribute to the quality of the threads and often feel ignored; while trollish posters get all the attention over and over.

Hard to feel a part of the forum if you don't fit in with certain groups of regular posters who seem to soak up all the attention. That said quality, diversification, of educated posters on this site is really what sets CP apart.

My apologies to OP for derailing the thread.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

...."half "it's" members" ...

This is actually incorrect.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Yeah I mean Babcock is so good that he can't coach them to play defence and they usually need 5 goals to win.

No kidding...we make fun of the Oilers but the Babcock coached Leafs finished dead last and won a lottery. Pretty shrewd I know...Without Matthews they would still be bottom feeders.

[Classic_Sniper]

I don't understand all the Gulutzen hate. The guy has to deal with a lot of young players who will make mistakes and who aren't in the primes of their careers yet. After the disastrous first month of last season, he had this team playing like one of the best teams in the league. They were 3rd best in wins behind only Anaheim and Washington, they were 6th in both the PK and PP, 7th in shots allowed and they were a top 5 team in goals allowed which is remarkable considering the porous goaltending we received from Brian Elliott who by the way is sporting a horrid 3.33 GAA and .876 sv% with his new team.

If the team can replicate what they did last year after the first month with Mike Smith in net this time around and better discipline, we could be one of the best teams in the league. I liked Bob Hartley too, but Gulutzen has sold me on his direction and from the looks of it, it sounds like he's pretty underappreciated around here.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by RichKlit

I don't agree with baclunds socks but I do believe this site doesn't like dissenting views and posters are quickly dog piled for seemingly holding different views or something like grammar on a message board.

An opinion is one thing but to go on and on about the same thing with nothing to back you up is straight up trolling. Over the last half of last season to now the coach has a winning percentage that is in the upper echelon of NHL coaches. He is not getting fired so move on.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by RichKlit

I don't agree with baclunds socks but I do believe this site doesn't like dissenting views and posters are quickly dog piled for seemingly holding different views or something like grammar on a message board.

Rightly or wrongly there is an inherent prejudice among this community of Flames fans. Dissenters should be wary that while the volunteer Moderators do their best to make this a civil and safe place for everyone to express their opinions, thoughts that rub against the grain are not going to be ignored by the majority. People should also be aware that when they make emotional assertions, or appear to hold certain views with an irrational or agenda-driven bias, they will solicit like-minded reactions.

Playing the victim in the face of criticism that a poster has engendered is not going to elicit a great deal of sympathy from the powers that be.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Our opinions are nothing alike. As owner of dissent I demand Backlunds Socks refrain from forming bad opinions about GG in my name.

I thought you were just from the Town of Dissen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissen,_Lower_Saxony

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I thought you were just from the Town of Dissen.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissen,_Lower_Saxony

That is what I thought!

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Rightly or wrongly there is an inherent prejudice among this community of Flames fans. Dissenters should be wary that while the volunteer Moderators do there best to make this a civil and safe place for everyone to express their opinions, thoughts that rub against the grain are not going to be ignored by the majority. People should also be aware that when they make emotional assertions, or appear to hold certain views with an irrational or agenda-driven bias, they will solicit like-minded reactions.

Playing the victim in the face of criticism that a poster has engendered is not going to elicit a great deal of sympathy from the powers that be.

[cannon7]

I'd give Gulutzan a lot more slack if he wasn't being out-coached most nights. I can look passed misusing your lineup, I know there's a player relations aspect to the job and you won't get very far crushing your underperforming vets. But a coach is only as good as his competition, and Gulutzan has a lot of room for improvement here, especially at home. I also hold Gulutzan partially responsible for this team starting games flat-footed. IF he's a good coach, that should be fixed already. Think back to the Sutter era, that sort of thing wouldn't have lasted a period let alone several games.

Guess I'm just not a fan of players' coaches. I want my team's coach to make the paint peel off the walls when the team is playing like crap.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Backlunds_socks

This thread is about GG. If you don't agree with the CP mass it makes you a troll?

Jesus, this forum is unbearable. If you have a different opinion, or a grammatical error, half its members take it personally.

Well...there is a REALLY easy way for you to avoid it.

[robaur]

My biggest issue with Gulutzan is with his player useage and in-game adjustments. Those are the two biggest pro's that a great Head Coach has. I think Gulutzan would make a terrific assistant coach as he is more of an overall systems guy, but less effective on the fly. This was evidenced in last year's playoffs and at other points during the season.

The stubborn aspect:

- Playing Bennett as a Center
- Playing Brouwer on the PP
- Getting the 4th line and 3rd pairing stranded out on the ice multiple times
- Failing to effectively line match in the playoffs. In the playoffs - you pretty much HAVE to 'hard match'....but Gulutzan said he believes in rolling his lines more or less....which is extremely stupid as it backfired.
- Again the 3rd pairing being on the ice for majority of the goals against vs the Ducks in playoffs last year.
-

These are just simply red flags. Yes, he coached the team to a great 2nd half over a large sample size, but when it gets down to a Game 7 in the playoffs - is this the guy you want at the helm? I don't think the answer to that question is a 'Yes' in his current state.

If you're going to say that we have a Head Coach who is in his 2nd tenure and is young/growing along with the team than maybe all of his shortcomings can be overlooked. Last year's series vs the Ducks was also his 1st playoff series as a Head Coach. I mean every coach has to gain experience somehow right....so maybe this is the viewpoint to take....that we have a young coach who is learning, growing with the team, and with experience will become a better coach.

But - if he were fired today....I doubt Gulutzan gets a Head Coach position in the NHL....atleast not for a while.

[bax]

Originally Posted by robaur

My biggest issue with Gulutzan is with his player useage and in-game adjustments. Those are the two biggest pro's that a great Head Coach has. I think Gulutzan would make a terrific assistant coach as he is more of an overall systems guy, but less effective on the fly. This was evidenced in last year's playoffs and at other points during the season.

The stubborn aspect:

- Playing Bennett as a Center
- Playing Brouwer on the PP
- Getting the 4th line and 3rd pairing stranded out on the ice multiple times
- Failing to effectively line match in the playoffs. In the playoffs - you pretty much HAVE to 'hard match'....but Gulutzan said he believes in rolling his lines more or less....which is extremely stupid as it backfired.
- Again the 3rd pairing being on the ice for majority of the goals against vs the Ducks in playoffs last year.
-

These are just simply red flags. Yes, he coached the team to a great 2nd half over a large sample size, but when it gets down to a Game 7 in the playoffs - is this the guy you want at the helm? I don't think the answer to that question is a 'Yes' in his current state.

If you're going to say that we have a Head Coach who is in his 2nd tenure and is young/growing along with the team than maybe all of his shortcomings can be overlooked. Last year's series vs the Ducks was also his 1st playoff series as a Head Coach. I mean every coach has to gain experience somehow right....so maybe this is the viewpoint to take....that we have a young coach who is learning, growing with the team, and with experience will become a better coach.

But - if he were fired today....I doubt Gulutzan gets a Head Coach position in the NHL....atleast not for a while.

The only reason he wouldn't land a job for a while is because there are only 31 positions and they are all filled.

I think playing Bennett cat center was more of an organizational mandate than anything else. They really wanted him to be a center and felt he could take that step, but it's looking like he's a winger now.

What is wrong with Brouwer on the PP? It's one of the few places he was effective last year. He is a big body and he screens the goalie- that was basically his only job and we had a good to great powerplay, especially in the playoffs.

Line matching/rolling 4 lines I can understand your frustration and maybe this is an area GG needs to improve on and be a little more flexible, but you cant argue that his strategy didn't pay huge dividends in the second half of the year after the system was simplified and sorted out.

As for the third pairing, what can you do? Every third pairing in the league gets eaten alive on a night to night basis. It's unrealistic to expect your top 4 to play 60 minutes a night, but still GG can learn and improve, you are correct.

I think GG still has lots to learn as you said, but when I watch this team I think his fundamentals are great. He is a young coach and he will improve with more experience. I think it's a great situation for the Flames.

[EldrickOnIce]

Not starting strong is 100% on players.
Not being prepared (system, game plan, strategy, match ups) is all on the coach.
There is some Hollywood notion that a coach's job is to inspire, or come up with some motivational speech. This is largely fantasy.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Not starting strong is 100% on players.
Not being prepared (system, game plan, strategy, match ups) is all on the coach.
There is some Hollywood notion that a coach's job is to inspire, or come up with some motivational speech. This is largely fantasy.

Just like the myth that if a coach isn't having a fit on the bench they don't care.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Not starting strong is 100% on players.
Not being prepared (system, game plan, strategy, match ups) is all on the coach.
There is some Hollywood notion that a coach's job is to inspire, or come up with some motivational speech. This is largely fantasy.

Agreed. I believe it is extremely difficult as a fan to attribute results to the coach vs. the players. We just don't know enough to tell if players are doing what they are being coached to do.

But it's a truth in sports that coaches are evaluated on results and are hired to be fired. GG simply dos not have a long track record of success and based on the actions of management, this team is being built to win now. So it's fair to say he will need to deliver an acceptable level of results. Which to me have to include an improved regular season over last year, or barring that, a playoff run.

Without either of those, he is quite likely done IMO.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

When the Leafs were the worst team in the league, was Babcock a bad coach?

It doesn't matter what I think. The fact is, Leafs management has determined he's worth that much to the team's success. They've only got one player who makes more (for now)

The Flames arrived at the conclusion it was better to fire and pay two coaches than finish out their commitment.

In each situation, it shows that NHL GM's value the impact of coaching much more than just a couple wins here or there, as fans like to believe.

I don't think Gulutzan has been bad this season. It's not his fault Bartkowski somehow made the team (I guess maybe it is) or Jankowski won a spot in camp but the roster is clogged with old junky players.

I just hope the Flames can do some damage in the playoffs this time around.

[Serapth]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I fail to see how Treliving had any super-substantial impact on improving the Flames' fortunes by 17 points entering 2016-17, considering how the only "major" acquisitions he made were Troy Brouwer, Kris Versteeg, Brian Elliott, and Chad Johnson.

Also, the Flames' special-teams were both top-10 last year.

Well frankly I think Easter didn't get the credit due either.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by bax

...I think playing Bennett cat sic. center was more of an organizational mandate than anything else. They really wanted him to be a center and felt he could take that step, but it's looking like he's a winger now...

I am not convinced that this was all about what the "organization" wants. Yes, that plays a part, but I am also apt to believe that the coaches saw potential in developing Bennett as a centre, and it is likely that they still do. When Gaudreau was moved onto his wing in the Winnipeg game, they both looked terrific. I think there is a good chance that Bennett spends some more time at centre this season.