GOAT Across All Sports

[keratosis]

Originally Posted by DownhillGoat

You forgot Airplane!

Enter the Dragon

Sent from my SM-A715W using Tapatalk

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

If you need to list more than 1 guy from a sport, he's not in the conversation.

These guys should be peerless in their own sports.

There is absolutely no reason why the greatest athlete of all time and the second (or third, or fourth, etc.) greatest athlete of all time can't come from the same sport... if two hockey players emerge who score 10 goals a game, they'd both be at the top of the list! The appropriate comparison is to the bell curve, and smaller sports will naturally have more separation at the top just because they have more discrete bell curves. There SHOULD be more soccer players in the conversation than horseshoe throwers because soccer has been around longer and has more participants.

If you don't consider participation, and start making statements like this....

Originally Posted by CroFlames

The GOAT across all sports means he is the clearest cut GOAT in his own sport.

Then the winner is someone like Alan Francis who has won 24 world championships over 30 years in a single discipline.

We're after the biggest fish here, not the one who's the most bigger than the other fishes in his pond.

I don't have a single answer, but I'd say the greatest athlete has to be compared to other athletes. How much strength does he have? Finesse? Speed? Endurance? Longevity? Versatility? Cultural appeal (because entertainment is part of an athletes job)? The nature of the sport matters, and if we're using dominance as a proxy for greatness then participation has to be considered. The greatest athlete isn't simply the most dominant in his field. And thus, proximity to others in his field doesn't rule anyone out either.

[CalgaryFan1988]

No love for Supercross?

Jeremy McGrath (7 supercross championships).

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

No love for Supercross?

Jeremy McGrath (7 supercross championships).

Love the guy but no chance, borderline athlete in a fringe sport, not globally famous, mediocre competition.

Tony Hawk maybe. He checks every box.

[SebC]

Bo Jackson, Jim Thorpe, and Jackie Robinson are usually considered in these conversations for their multisport prowess.

[Kasi]

Originally Posted by Plett25

I don't think LeBron is underrated, IMO he's actually massively overrated due to recency bias.

My all time NBA starting 5 is:
C Kareem
PF Bill Russell
SF Larry Joe Bird
SG Jordan
PG Magic

And that's pretty much my top 5 all time NBA. And LeBron isn't better than any of them at those positions. He isn't even uniquely able to play multiple positions. Magic won his first title filling in for Kareem at centre.

And even though I grew up hating the Showtime Lakers, Kareem is the goat by a whisker over Magic. His career was insanely long by the standards of the time, Tom Brady is amazing for playing at 43, but Kareem played at 42 over 30 years ago! He was first team all NBA at the age of 39.

The skyhook was literally an unstoppable shot, and it hasn't been replicated in the 50+ years since Kareem started dominating with it. It was unstoppable even though everyone knew it was coming. And if you cheated to try to take away the skyhook, he would pick you apart with his passing.

He played forever. He won multiple championships. He was unstoppable offensively and played great defence.

Jordan is the goat for most people old enough to remember watching him. LeBron is the goat for most people too young to have watched Jordan.

Kareem is the forgotten goat because he dominated 40 years ago and retired 30 years ago. When he dominated, the NBA finals weren't even carried live, they were on tape delay. He dominated before cable sports channels.

Kareem is the goat.

Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.

Lol in no way at all is Bird better than James. Magic maybe could be argued but I think that’s sailed too. For NBA it’s Jordan, James and Kareem. Everyone else can take a seat. Jordan is probably still the best but it’s not really undisputed anymore.

Anyway basketball and tennis have issues with cluster of GOATS at the top. For undisputed I’d have to say Ali, Woods, Brady and Gretzky as the Mount Rushmore. I’m not a big enough soccer fan to really say if Pepe stood out that much.

[SebC]

I think Wilt Chamberlain has a decent claim on basketball GOAT.

[Julio]

Lionel Conacher

[Nadal Fan]

He won 173 matches in a row before a questionable call ended his streak......GOAT!

Spoiler!

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by SebC

There is absolutely no reason why the greatest athlete of all time and the second (or third, or fourth, etc.) greatest athlete of all time can't come from the same sport... if two hockey players emerge who score 10 goals a game, they'd both be at the top of the list! The appropriate comparison is to the bell curve, and smaller sports will naturally have more separation at the top just because they have more discrete bell curves. There SHOULD be more soccer players in the conversation than horseshoe throwers because soccer has been around longer and has more participants.

This is just silly. Of course we aren’t talking about all five of the goats to be soccer players. It’s dumb, defeats the purpose of the discussion and makes no sense at all.

Literally the entire point is to take the greats from different sports and compare them.

No, no, we should just grade them on a bell curve...what? Lol why?

[Plett25]

Originally Posted by Kasi

Lol in no way at all is Bird better than James. Magic maybe could be argued but I think that’s sailed too. For NBA it’s Jordan, James and Kareem. Everyone else can take a seat. Jordan is probably still the best but it’s not really undisputed anymore.

Its not a popular opinion, but no serious basketball fan thinks it is lol-worthy. Reggie Miller thinks Bird is better, and he knows a little bit more about basketball than you or me.

IMO if you take LeBron and transport him to the 80's, he'd surely be an all-star, but between the rule changes, the physicality of that era and primitive medical technology, he wouldn't be dominant. But if you take Bird and put him into the 21st century NBA with no hard fouls, only a passing interest in defense, an emphasis on 3 pointers and advanced medical therapies, he'd be even more dominant than he was in the 80's.

Originally Posted by Kasi

Anyway basketball and tennis have issues with cluster of GOATS at the top. For undisputed I’d have to say Ali, Woods, Brady and Gretzky as the Mount Rushmore. I’m not a big enough soccer fan to really say if Pepe stood out that much.

Ali is absolutely in the running for goat of goats. But Tiger? No way. Nicklaus is the goat of golf. Not long ago, it was a matter of when (not if) Tiger passed Jack. But then a bunch of stuff happened and Tiger never finished closing the gap.

[Scorch]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Lol, that is not an argument in LeBron's favour.

The fact that you can now customize your teamates to be amazing makes it much easier for him to win than it was for Jordan.

What you call "interchangeable" is actually "hand picked".

You don’t think Brady had any influence on bringing in Gronk and AB? Undeniably Brady had influence on the Pats offensive roster too.

Nobody is talking about Brady “hand picking” the surrounding talent and are all hailing him the GOAT, yet for some reason people just can’t stop hating LeBron enough to admit he’s the reason why 3 Different franchises have their championships. You’d have better luck naming a year in recent memory of LeBron being in the finals than a year without him.

[Plett25]

Originally Posted by SebC

I think Wilt Chamberlain has a decent claim on basketball GOAT.

Wilt is a little like Bo Jackson. They're probably the best athletes to have ever played their sports, they dominated with their physical abilities.

But Wilt wasn't the best basketball player. He was a very good basketball player with unbelievable physical gifts. But he was so dominant in certain aspects, he never had to work on perfecting his game. I think he was something like a 50% free throw shooter.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

F1: Schumacher is close but Lewis Hamilton has challenge to that throne right now and is younger.

My heart's got Senna.

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Love the guy but no chance, borderline athlete in a fringe sport, not globally famous, mediocre competition.

Tony Hawk maybe. He checks every box.

Every box? Can't skate street/rails.

Tech street: Mullen/Song
Vert: Hawk
Rails: P. Rod/Koston/Nyjah
Gnarly: Thomas/Way/Boulala

[cam_wmh]

Ronnie O'Sullivan?
Terje Haakonsen?
Kelly Slater?

[Kasi]

Miller’s opinion on GOATs is worthless as he is biased by the era he played in. I take as much stock in that as anyone else who played in that era, which is none. In every statistical measure James is Birds superior. Far more dynamic player, better defender, facilitator and scorer. Tbh when you brought up your list of greats and not a single one was in the modern era it showed pretty clear that your biases matches up the same. And your point about the physicality of the era is overblown. It’s brought up and there is some nugget of truth to it but at the same time it’s a bit of an exaggeration. I’ll try to dig up a video I watched recently (might have been on the ringer or one of the other basketball vid sites) but they went over that well.

[Da_Chief]

Lots of names already mentioned...I have a different thought...it is crazy...

I recently binged 3rd Rock from the Sun so looking at some of these athletes they are just much better then their peers. Take Brady for example in his 40s, still throwing like hes 25 and winning.

Could these small number of greats be aliens living amongst us? Just having fun with my wild theory...

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Kasi

Lol in no way at all is Bird better than James. Magic maybe could be argued but I think that’s sailed too. For NBA it’s Jordan, James and Kareem. Everyone else can take a seat. Jordan is probably still the best but it’s not really undisputed anymore.

Anyway basketball and tennis have issues with cluster of GOATS at the top. For undisputed I’d have to say Ali, Woods, Brady and Gretzky as the Mount Rushmore. I’m not a big enough soccer fan to really say if Pepe stood out that much.

Tiger and Ali are both disputed IMO.

Ali is the most influential athlete of all time, but I’m not sure he’s the Greatest of Boxer all time.

Interestingly enough a name that’s probably being missed here is Floyd Mayweather - he’s a jerk but he’s undefeated and it’s tough to argue 50-0.

If needing to be the unanimous GOAT in your sport is a criteria then The Mt Rushmore should probably be

Tom Brady
Serena Williams
Wayne Gretzky
Pele

And I think even those last two are arguable

[ResAlien]

Ha no Mayweather is nowhere close to the GOAT boxer. He made business decisions his entire career, ducking tougher fights to keep the undefeated record alive and waiting until people were far past their prime to finally fight them (Pacquiao for one). Hell of a businessman but isn’t even in the conversation for greatest ever.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Wayne Gretzky


And I think even those last two are arguable

For what reason?