Arena negotiation discussion. UPD: Flames release their proposal

[surferguy]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

"Along with free transit and policing on event nights, the Calgary Flames owners asked for a veto on future Victoria Park developments and a cut of Stampede parking revenue as part of a new arena deal, Metro has learned."

https://www.metronews.ca/news/calgar...g-revenue.html

Will the flames be asking the city for a conscription measure of 18-22 yr olds to fill the usher and concession roles in the new building as well??

No pay of course

[Calgary14]

The Flames have publicly stated they are done negotiating for a new arena. Then why is Ken King scheduled to meet with the city on Monday?

And since the Flames have said that a privately funded arena isn't viable and they'd require tax breaks, free rent, taxpayer money etc. then perhaps they need to revisit their business model and/or relocate?

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Calgary14

The Flames have publicly stated they are done negotiating for a new arena. Then why is Ken King scheduled to meet with the city on Monday?

And since the Flames have said that a privately funded arena isn't viable and they'd require tax breaks, free rent, taxpayer money etc. then perhaps they need to revisit their business model and/or relocate?

Pretty sure he wants a meeting just so he can do this.

NSFW!

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by surferguy

Will the flames be asking the city for a conscription measure of 18-22 yr olds to fill the usher and concession roles in the new building as well??

No pay of course

Flames sure love their volunteers and tax money. You'd almost think they were a charity and we should be thankful they've blessed us with their presence in Calgary.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

Jordan Kanygin‏Verified account @CTVJKanygin 1h hour ago
More
Replying to @CTVJKanygin
Extending CRL beyond 20yrs needs legislative change & "would have a significant impact on education tax payers across Alberta" -spokesperson

Jordan Kanygin‏Verified account @CTVJKanygin 1h hour ago
More
Replying to @CTVJKanygin
So, even if the City accepted the #Flames' arena proposal, the CRL funding (and program) may not even exist. #yyc /thread

So basically the funding model the Flames plan hinges on is probably not even possible, and if it is, our education system suffers as a result.

Bake em' away, toys.

[Matty81]

It seems like which pots of funding and dollars are used are almost irrelevant now that all parties are entrenched and the rich guys seem resolved to teach everyone a lesson about consequences.

I am starting to believe the flames will be gone soon. I think they'll finally let a sun belt team move to quebec to preserve the canadian tv deal and allow the flames owners to sell to Seattle provided there is interest. Bettman is one of the most obtuse people I've ever seen and will go to extremes to prove he is right

All the chatter about how they will never do it will only push guys like bettman and edwards to do it.

[PepsiFree]

As seems to need repetition, the Flames moving is not the most likely end result. The Flames being put up for sale if an arena plan doesn’t go the way CESC wants? Absolutely possible. But the amount of factors at play here are staggeringly high. If you think the BOG is going to approve a move of a profitable team, while other teams struggle, and forego the upcoming expansion fee, then I’d take a step back and re-examine the situation.

No arena deal does not equal the Flames moving, as much as King would like to have you believe. And you better realise that’s EXACTLY what he wants you to believe.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Matty81

I am starting to believe the flames will be gone soon.

Well the good news is that the sloth and incompetence in trying to manage an arena build would probably also translate into how quickly they manage a move. Chances are we'd at least get to watch this current group of Flames play through their Cup window...if there is one.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Why do people think this is a Mayoral decision? If Smith wins he remains just one vote on a council opposed to the deal. I wouldn't worry about them pushing through a crappy deal given 99% of the population has no interest in a deal.

The council rejected the Flames proposal unanimously. They don't agree on anything. You would need to win at least 5 of the spots to be able to start to put pressure on the council

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Well the good news is that the sloth and incompetence in trying to manage an arena build would probably also translate into how quickly they manage a move. Chances are we'd at least get to watch this current group of Flames play through their Cup window...if there is one.

I wonder how Seattle will feel about having to add a field house for the Stampeders.

[Izzle]

Looks like the city responded

[Madman]

Yay, pie chart fight!

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Well the good news is that the sloth and incompetence in trying to manage an arena build would probably also translate into how quickly they manage a move. Chances are we'd at least get to watch this current group of Flames play through their Cup window...if there is one.

Bettman would probably announce the team is moving when he comes out to hand the cup to Giordano.

[Red_Baron]

Okay, so the owners have said that they will work with what they have, why can't people just accept that?
They did want public money, the city said no, they said they can't proceed without it. I am yet to see any model that proves that the Calgary Flames as a business can afford to build and operate a building on their own. They did come off like a spoiled child the way they broke off the negotiations but they were right, the business can't afford it.

No matter how personally rich the owners are, it is the business of the Calgary Flames that has to be able to afford the arena. Calgary is simply not a big enough market for that to happen with the current economic reality. Hopefully this exponential increase in construction costs levels off and the economy in the city of Calgary improves and an arena can be built then.

[Swayze11]

Hey I see some of the same things in both proposals! Progress am I right?!?

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Why do people think this is a Mayoral decision? If Smith wins he remains just one vote on a council opposed to the deal. I wouldn't worry about them pushing through a crappy deal given 99% of the population has no interest in a deal.

Because they hate Nenshi

[Resolute 14]

A few things on the City's pie charts:
- Counting a green line LRT stop as an "indirect cost" of the new arena is disingenuous. There is going to be a stop at the Stampede Grounds whether or not an arena happens.
-Separating $25 million as "Flames not defined" is likewise rather odd.
- The one area where I agree with the Flames is that "users pay" is more accurately defined as Flames pay. Because prices are going to rise to what the market will bear regardless. The difference is that ticket tax revenue would come out of what would otherwise be HRR for the Flames.
-"Flames ownership pays" should include what the city expects the cost of the lease/rent under their proposal to be.

The City still looks far, far better in this than King and the Flames do, but disingenuous arguments and conveniently hidden costs are starting to seriously creep into their half of the pie chart war.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

A few things on the City's pie charts:
- Counting a green line LRT stop as an "indirect cost" of the new arena is disingenuous. There is going to be a stop at the Stampede Grounds whether or not an arena happens.
-Separating $25 million as "Flames not defined" is likewise rather odd.
- The one area where I agree with the Flames is that "users pay" is more accurately defined as Flames pay. Because prices are going to rise to what the market will bear regardless. The difference is that ticket tax revenue would come out of what would otherwise be HRR for the Flames.
-"Flames ownership pays" should include what the city expects the cost of the lease/rent under their proposal to be.

The City still looks far, far better in this than King and the Flames do, but disingenuous arguments and conveniently hidden costs are starting to seriously creep into their half of the pie chart war.

In the city’s proposal, the Flames own the building, so there is no rent/lease. Just property tax.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

A few things on the City's pie charts:
- Counting a green line LRT stop as an "indirect cost" of the new arena is disingenuous. There is going to be a stop at the Stampede Grounds whether or not an arena happens.

I disagree. An arena will certainly require a larger station (capable of serving larger crowds on event nights) which will of course cost more to build.

Now, to a certain extent, the property taxes on the arena contribute to those increased service costs (which is why the Flames should be required to pay property taxes like any other property owner). However, the Flames aren't including increased service and infrastructure costs in the calculation of their contribution, so I don't think there is anything disingenguous about it.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

A few things on the City's pie charts:
- Counting a green line LRT stop as an "indirect cost" of the new arena is disingenuous. There is going to be a stop at the Stampede Grounds whether or not an arena happens.
-Separating $25 million as "Flames not defined" is likewise rather odd.
- The one area where I agree with the Flames is that "users pay" is more accurately defined as Flames pay. Because prices are going to rise to what the market will bear regardless. The difference is that ticket tax revenue would come out of what would otherwise be HRR for the Flames.
-"Flames ownership pays" should include what the city expects the cost of the lease/rent under their proposal to be.

The City still looks far, far better in this than King and the Flames do, but disingenuous arguments and conveniently hidden costs are starting to seriously creep into their half of the pie chart war.

The thing that I fail to understand is how this was even deemed to be going nowhere by CSEC. This is a negotiation and the city is obviously going to cave on some of this stuff (and so they should) just like the Flames will.