Ongoing US Mass Shooting Thread 2

[PsYcNeT]

There are literally two large-scale examples of gun bans working in the last 50 years alone in Western cultures

[FlamesAddiction]

A gun ban is probably hopeless, but people should start pushing to repeal the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (PLCAA) that was passed in 2005. The law grants immunity to gun manufacturers from lawsuits. Money is where the power is, and if gun manufactures start getting sued repeatedly, they would eventually just stop selling certain weapons, or be forced to apply some kind of safety measures or restrictions.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

There are literally two large-scale examples of gun bans working in the last 50 years alone in Western cultures

In fairness, I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about (dont know the second one?) but I am familiar with the Australian gun ban and it was actually significantly effective.

So it can work...but then again, Australia is an Island so the restriction of goods is hard to realistically compare.

Restricting guns into an Island state is not really all that comparable to restricting the importation of guns over the largest uncontested land border in the World that also happens to border the largest manufacturer of guns...in the World.

However, we shouldnt let 'Perfect' be the enemy of 'Good.'

I am all for reasonable and realistic firearms restrictions, however I cant speak all that intelligently to the current crop of proposed gun restrictions because I know nothing about them.

I dont know anything about hunting or sport-shooting...I dont know what kinds of firearms are involved in all of that, etc.

I actually think that Canada's gun laws are pretty good as they are. But thats just an opinion based on personal experience, I dont live in downtown Toronto or Vancouver's downtown east side or anything, I'm just not sure that radical changes are required as opposed to minor tweaks.

But illegal US guns will get into Canada. This is just a fact of life that we're going to have to make peace with. As distasteful as it is.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by 81MC

Has this actually worked for anything that criminal enterprise can profit off of? There’s like, a hundred years of recent history that indicates otherwise.

The whole basis of the rule of law works on this basis, we dont make robbery legal because a sometimes criminals get away with robbery

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

This is why you have a plan and practice it BEFORE you need it. The time to dust off and read the Emergency Plan is NOT when you need to be doing it from automatic memory.

That's why I like how CPS handles this. Not only do they practice this, they do it at the very schools themselves so they are familiar with the schools as something more than a floorplan on the hood of their patrol cruiser.

Haha. Your tax dollars at work. Not sure I want a paramilitary force in my hometown with a bunch of meatheads with a hero complex that think they're the thin blue line that stops us falling into anarchy rolling around like robocop. Oil's up and crime is down.

Put that money into financial crime units and tracking down folks that are swiping amazon packages and bicycles...not training for 0.000001% scenarios because "it could happen here".

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by Rutuu

Haha. Your tax dollars at work. Not sure I want a paramilitary force in my hometown with a bunch of meatheads with a hero complex that think they're the thin blue line that stops us falling into anarchy rolling around like robocop. Oil's up and crime is down.

Put that money into financial crime units and tracking down folks that are swiping amazon packages and bicycles...not training for 0.000001% scenarios because "it could happen here".

[nik-]

Send the forensic auditors after the active shooters!

[IGGYRULES]

Originally Posted by Rutuu

Haha. Your tax dollars at work. Not sure I want a paramilitary force in my hometown with a bunch of meatheads with a hero complex that think they're the thin blue line that stops us falling into anarchy rolling around like robocop. Oil's up and crime is down.



Put that money into financial crime units and tracking down folks that are swiping amazon packages and bicycles...not training for 0.000001% scenarios because "it could happen here".

You don't think the practice and tactics are of value in other situations??? I'm sure you'd have a different outlook as to whether your tax dollars were worthy of it was one of your loved ones involved.

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by IGGYRULES

You don't think the practice and tactics are of value in other situations??? I'm sure you'd have a different outlook as to whether your tax dollars were worthy of it was one of your loved ones involved.

You are correct. Just as I'm super mad when their packages get swiped and nothing is done. Active shooter situations are super rare in Calgary, and even rarer at schools.

I want a risk based budget for Police Services and training.

Personally knowing that the local SWAT team knows how to clear rooms doesn't comfort me as much as knowing that a local liaison officer works with the school staff to put procedures in place so that outside doors are locked to the school, there is only one point of entry, and that point of entry is monitored. Audits and checks of these procedures would be nice as well as a transparent and public way of looking up the results of those audits.

[nik-]

Can we start with the rampaging on the transit system before we get to the amazon packages?

[oldschoolcalgary]

I don't think there will ever be a ban on assault style weapons in the US. if the statistics recently posted are accurate, there 1 AR style gun for every 20 people in the US.

I don't think that even an "Emmett Till" moment can do that now...maybe if done during Sandy Hook, it could have worked, but that moment is lost now and people have become even more desensitized and entrenched.

Maybe they could possibly get high capacity magazines banned to 10-15 rds? At worse 30 (which is still ridiculous imo)? No legitimate 2nd Amendment defense on high capacity magazines imo, but with Scotus stacked to the right, its unlikely they would make a ruling; most likely they would pass it back to each state.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

This is why you have a plan and practice it BEFORE you need it. The time to dust off and read the Emergency Plan is NOT when you need to be doing it from automatic memory.

That's why I like how CPS handles this. Not only do they practice this, they do it at the very schools themselves so they are familiar with the schools as something more than a floorplan on the hood of their patrol cruiser.

The US has needed this for 20 years. there is no "before" in the practice they've done. In that country every major city knows eventually they will have a nutbar rampaging through a school, while their political representatives tout around weapons of war to looks cool.

[driveway]

A solution to mass-shooting attacks at public places like schools that would likely reduce or almost eliminate those events would be to arm every adult and require them to carry a weapon.

Of course, this would obviously increase the number of actual shootings. Most predictably accidental shootings and suicides, but also other kinds of shooting deaths as well (an example: Florida is a "Stand Your Ground" State, would a physically smaller teacher be within their rights to shoot a larger student advancing at them in a menacing fashion?).

The only long-term solution to firearm deaths is firearm restrictions. If the US actually wants to solve this issue, it begins with the repeal of the 2nd Amendment and nothing else is worth talking about because it's just window dressing.

If repeal of the 2nd Amendment is not on the table, then all other discussions are pointless as they will have no measurable impact.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by Rutuu

Personally knowing that the local SWAT team knows how to clear rooms doesn't comfort me as much as knowing that a local liaison officer works with the school staff to put procedures in place so that outside doors are locked to the school, there is only one point of entry, and that point of entry is monitored. Audits and checks of these procedures would be nice as well as a transparent and public way of looking up the results of those audits.

You...don't seem to understand anything about what a "school lockdown drill" entails, with this statement. Especially not how Calgary does them.

[metallicat]

Originally Posted by Rutuu

Haha. Your tax dollars at work. Not sure I want a paramilitary force in my hometown with a bunch of meatheads with a hero complex that think they're the thin blue line that stops us falling into anarchy rolling around like robocop. Oil's up and crime is down.

Put that money into financial crime units and tracking down folks that are swiping amazon packages and bicycles...not training for 0.000001% scenarios because "it could happen here".

Bunch of meat heads with a hero complex. These guys just stormed a school and took out a shooter before they could kill more kids. Heaven forbid they did that. Should have been out stopping the porch pirates.

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

You...don't seem to understand anything about what a "school lockdown drill" entails, with this statement. Especially not how Calgary does them.

Oh wow. This is a thing?

I mean on a percentage basis every school should be doing H2S alive drills instead, but you're right, I don't know. I'll take my probabilities and radical ideas on risk and go else where

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by metallicat

Bunch of meat heads with a hero complex. These guys just stormed a school and took out a shooter before they could kill more kids. Heaven forbid they did that. Should have been out stopping the porch pirates.

Thanked your post for the massive irony between your comment and your sig.

[Azure]

Can't we have both?

Just because active shooter situations are rare in Calgary doesn't mean there shouldn't be active training to prepare for them. Just like a fire drill at a school in case of a fire. How often does a school fire breakout? And yet I remember fire drills 2-3x per year.

I also remember going to school and practising lockdown procedures. That was 2004-2006.

Yesterday a town nearby had an incident at a bar with a guy being an idiot and the school nearby was put on alert.

Is that wrong? Is it wrong that the cops knew how to deal with the situation?
Such a strange take.

[8 Ball]

Originally Posted by Rutuu

Oh wow. This is a thing?

I mean on a percentage basis every school should be doing H2S alive drills instead, but you're right, I don't know. I'll take my probabilities and radical ideas on risk and go else where

Ya, it's been a thing since my kids were young, and they have both graduated high school. They also did fire drills if it makes you feel better from a risk perspective.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by #-3

The US has needed this for 20 years. there is no "before" in the practice they've done. In that country every major city knows eventually they will have a nutbar rampaging through a school, while their political representatives tout around weapons of war to looks cool.

Well, yes...they've NEEDED to have plans for for school/mass shootings for a long time. But there's a difference between having a plan, and having the people who are supposed to put that plan in motion KNOW the plan.

You can see this in, and I hate that there are such current examples readily to hand, but Uvalde vs Nashville.

In Uvalde everyone who was supposed to be doing something about the situation stood around with their thumbs up their butts trying to figure out what to do because while they had a plan, no one actually KNEW it.

In Nashville, the people responding knew the plan and put it into action immediately. Likely because they had practiced the plan before they needed it.