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Old 10-25-2019, 11:19 AM   #1941
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Originally Posted by PeteMoss View Post
As an outsider and completely unknowlegable in Alberta's finances - seems weird to do cuts when the economy is struggling. Typically you'd see government spend during times like that to try to get the economy moving in the right direction.

I get what you're saying on the infrastructure side, yeah, you should spend on that if you can. I'm against any cuts to things like help for those that really need it.


But realistically the Operations Budget has been out of control for a while and that does need to be cut. We're spending way too much just to keep the lights on so to speak.
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Old 10-25-2019, 11:22 AM   #1942
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But realistically the Operations Budget has been out of control for a while and that does need to be cut. We're spending way too much just to keep the lights on so to speak.
Almost as if maybe spending $30M on a "war room" was a luxury the province couldn't afford.
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Old 10-25-2019, 11:22 AM   #1943
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Man it's a good thing they reduced our year over year debt accumulation by uh, a generous 3%.
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Old 10-25-2019, 11:23 AM   #1944
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Just give us a PST already. At least that would be something I wouldn't enjoy but could understand.
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Old 10-25-2019, 11:27 AM   #1945
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Originally Posted by Fuzz View Post
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...dget-1.5332779


This pretty much says it all. Typical Conservative governments, starve yourself of revenue, then force cuts. And this is better than the NDP financial plan? Barely better by debt dollars, but far worse for the average person.

Only way you can show how ineffective government services are is to gut them as much as possible.
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Old 10-25-2019, 12:19 PM   #1946
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It seems like the entire UCP cabinet and party is busy tweeting today defending the budget. It's kind of hilarious and sad to see that effectively we are spending thousands of taxpayer dollars in productivity time on people in and working at the Leg to play on social media. Not sure if War Room strategy or damage control. Either way it looks wasteful.
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Old 10-25-2019, 12:22 PM   #1947
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Very disappointing budget, at least on a personal level.

Over the last 8 years my income has been reduced 4 times.
I have three 'kids' in University. I was hoping they could begin their independent lives with as little debt as possible but that seems less likely now.
Looks like my property taxes next year are going up more than I planned.
Profitable corporations are getting tax cuts beyond what is required to keep them competitive.

And we're no closer to get a pipeline to assist our bread and butter industry and we're even farther away from the dream of a more diverse Alberta economy (film, tech, green, etc).

The UPC promise of lower taxes is a lie. They've essentially increased personal taxes but made the municipalities the bad guys. I get that we have to control spending but how about doing something on the revenue side of the ledger?

So, if spending/deficit/debt isn't being substantially reduced, and the personal tax burden is increasing, and the economy isn't being stimulated to create new jobs, and the economy isn't being diversified and we're making things harder for students and the disabled, what is the upside of this budget besides servicing some feckless, obsolete ideological dogma?
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Old 10-25-2019, 12:32 PM   #1948
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https://twitter.com/helenipike/statu...60695871451136

Just saw this. Looks like the only universities not getting cut are Christian post-secondary institutions.
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Old 10-25-2019, 12:34 PM   #1949
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I appreciate the input. But do you have any real evidence from other jurisdictions that a business moved, or chose a location, based on its tax rate? And how that economic gain was realized?

It seems like an economic race to the bottom to me, and apparently a good number of others who know a hell of a lot more than I do about the subject. I mean, itís a great narrative, but I think itís a serious simplification.
These types of things can be challenging to quantify. But I can tell you this: my company moved to Alberta because of lower taxes. And my wife's company moved their head office to Alberta because of lower taxes. Calgary has more head offices than any other Canadian city, other than Toronto. Yes, that is partially because of O&G. But it isn't just O&G, it is also because of taxes. Both companies I mentioned are in finance, not O&G. I know this is anecdotal, but in the 15+ years I have lived in AB, I have come across countless other examples. As has everyone I have ever discussed it with. You can choose to deny that it 'actually' happens, but I see it happen all the time.

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it makes you wonder right

all this doom and gloom that if we increase taxes all of these oil companies are going to move away...to where?

encana, cnrl and husky arent based out of alberta because of their low taxes. they're here because this is where the oil is, are they not? its not like they are going to move to pei, they need alberta, not the other way around in my mind
Yes, oil companies are here because the oil is here. But the economy is a little more complex than just oil companies. The economic policy of lower corporate taxes attracting more business, is focused on businesses other than O&G. And don't we all want to diversify the economy? As I said, the companies I referred to above, are in finance.

Taxes are an expense to corporations. And the greater that expense is, the less capital there is left for other expenses - read: wages (the single largest expense for most companies).
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Old 10-25-2019, 12:56 PM   #1950
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Tax cuts for corporations and the wealthy, and austerity for the rest of us. This is the exact MO of every conservative government around the world, and it's what Scheer would have done on a national level had he won. The amount of people that vote for right wing parties and then wonder why their situation hasn't improved absolutely baffles me
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Old 10-25-2019, 01:03 PM   #1951
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https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ters-1.4999738

So many of Calgary's head offices are related to O&G (chart in this article with data from Calgary Econonmic Development shows 70%). If you take out the all the O&G companies, I suspect its aligned with other cities its size.
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Old 10-25-2019, 01:06 PM   #1952
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I haven't looked at the budget yet, but from the bits and pieces I'm hearing, it seems that, even if I think cuts are needed, they missed the mark.

I'm not pleased with the corporate tax cut, but believe something needs to be done to show businesses that Alberta won't be openly hostile to their bottom line like the NDP was. I would have liked to see a tax credit of some sort tied to employment, so we could get some of that sweet, sweet trickle down affect.

Infrastructure spending is a bit of a hard one. On one hand, I can support the idea that spending in down periods can boost employment. On the other hand, I'd like to see some more restraint when it comes to some of the larger projects. Even though it's far too late, the SW ring road is a perfect example. There surely had to have been a less complicated and less expensive way to achieve 99% of the efficacy of the road and interchanges. Instead, what I see, is a contractor's wet dream with overly complicated (read: expensive) bridge structures and road alignments that basically come down to padding their bottom line...
On the interchanges, There is not unless you want to sacrifice design speed or future capacity.

There was a lot of pre-investment in future expansion. Unlike the previous projects like the surface LRT through downtown or Glenmore and Deerfoot the ring road is designed for the future of having 16 lanes in some sections. I agree that this is over specification and pre-investment is a poor choice. However it isnít over designed for the specifications given.
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Old 10-25-2019, 01:11 PM   #1953
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The province wants to diversify and position itself as leader in tech/green energy etc and you achieve this by making post secondary education more expensive? There certainly is risk here and that's in the form of young talent going elsewhere for education and and not coming back.

This budget is a second rate hack job highlighted by a fairy tale surplus in the final year that will clearly turn into a another major deficit in a few months time when the buzz wears off. I'd be pretty upset if I bought into what the cons were selling at the election and saw this.
If all seats are filled than the price of tuition isnít affecting the education level in the population.

I would prefer to see a complete restructuring of university into an Education system as opposed to a combined education and research system and fund each part appropriately but that isnít going to happen.

But that aside the changes made to Universoty funding in this budget from what I can tell wonít decrease available seats as it will be born by students. If entrance averages drop as a result of this policy then we should intervene otherwise tuition is priced to low.
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Old 10-25-2019, 01:17 PM   #1954
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Originally Posted by PeteMoss View Post
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ters-1.4999738

So many of Calgary's head offices are related to O&G (chart in this article with data from Calgary Econonmic Development shows 70%). If you take out the all the O&G companies, I suspect its aligned with other cities its size.
Well if you take out the largest industry from any city, it's going to affect the numbers. (Which is why promoting diversification is good.)
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Old 10-25-2019, 01:26 PM   #1955
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Bingo. The UCP just shifted a tonne of things from being the Alberta Government's problem to your problem. So most people are going to end up having more money leaving their pockets through utilities, user fees, property taxes.

UCP voters asked for this. It was literally in the platform. But at the end of the day, this was so un-necessary if not for the massive scale of corporate socialism that the UCP provided to one singular industry.

The tech tax credit removal makes no sense what so ever and is only going to chase away any alternative industry.
The city doesn't need to increase property taxes. I know it's a hard concept for city council but they can actually reduce their spending as well. Cancelling or postponing the green line is good start.
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Old 10-25-2019, 01:29 PM   #1956
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The city doesn't need to increase property taxes. I know it's a hard concept for city council but they can actually reduce their spending as well. Cancelling or postponing the green line is good start.


Canceling the green line is a good thing? I canít abide that.
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Old 10-25-2019, 01:30 PM   #1957
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The city doesn't need to increase property taxes. I know it's a hard concept for city council but they can actually reduce their spending as well. Cancelling or postponing the green line is good start.

If this is the message the province wants to send, they should cancel further construction of the Ring Road.
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Old 10-25-2019, 01:31 PM   #1958
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The city doesn't need to increase property taxes. I know it's a hard concept for city council but they can actually reduce their spending as well. Cancelling or postponing the green line is good start.
I think somebody just tried that and are being roasted alive for it.
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Old 10-25-2019, 01:33 PM   #1959
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I think somebody just tried that and are being roasted alive for it.
Well, it's fine to cut spending.

Just don't cut staff. Or wages. Or programs. Or grants.
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Old 10-25-2019, 01:41 PM   #1960
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I think somebody just tried that and are being roasted alive for it.
I think they are being roasted for a 2.4 billion dollar tax cut while cutting programs. More like 4 billion in tax cuts if you include the Carbon tax.
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