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Old 05-09-2019, 11:54 AM   #281
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Did you miss the press conference? Daryl Katz was abundantly clear about what he expects to happen: Holland has been hired to supplement the already awesome core of elite Oilers players, and instill a culture of winning that results in multiple Stanley Cups.

Holland was not brought to Edmonton to rebuild. The expectation is that he will tinker on the edges to create a team that will win now.


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But, he otherwise has full autonomy...
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Old 05-11-2019, 04:31 AM   #282
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A good watch that can put into perspective Holland's body of work and give some insight into what the signing with the Oilers may end up looking like.

Loser city.

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Old 05-11-2019, 07:53 AM   #283
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A good watch that can put into perspective Holland's body of work and give some insight into what the signing with the Oilers may end up looking like.

Loser city.

Umm... if the Oilers follow the Red Wings success model I am not going to be very happy at all. I get where you were trying to come from here but if the Flames can win multiple SC championships with this group I am fine with BT holding on to guys too long and overpaying them.
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Old 05-11-2019, 11:38 AM   #284
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Amazing GM of the 90s and early 2000s. With no salary cap . . . .
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Old 05-11-2019, 01:00 PM   #285
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Amazing GM of the 90s and early 2000s. With no salary cap . . . .
Remember when the Wings had Curtis Joseph and Dominick Hasek?
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Old 05-11-2019, 03:42 PM   #286
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He's not on their cap. He's LTIR.
Players on LTIR still count against the cap
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Old 05-11-2019, 04:52 PM   #287
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Amazing GM of the 90s and early 2000s. With no salary cap . . . .
Are there any GM's from that era who have had real success since the cap era started?
It seems like most of those guys didn't adapt well.
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Old 05-11-2019, 05:34 PM   #288
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Are there any GM's from that era who have had real success since the cap era started?
It seems like most of those guys didn't adapt well.
Dean Lombardi , Jimmy Rutherford, Lou Lamoriello, David Poile, Ken Holland to name a few, although you may have to define “real success”.
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Old 05-11-2019, 07:19 PM   #289
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Players on LTIR still count against the cap
It counts until the salary makes you go over the cap and then you get relief.
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Old 05-11-2019, 07:21 PM   #290
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I wonder if Holland would trade their 1st for Brodie
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Old 05-11-2019, 09:45 PM   #291
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I am a little surprised at some of the sentiment here with regards to Ken Holland and his track record in Detroit and what he may or may not be able to achieve in Edmonton.

His teams in the last 10 years and some of his signings might not be the greatest and I am sure he would be one of the first to mention that. If we look at this track record from the last cup won in 2008 its as follows.

8 Playoff years with one Finals appearance in which they lost to the Penguins

432 wins and an average of 40+ wins a year if you don't include the lockout shortened season in 12-13.

If he is able to replicate even half of that with the Edmonton Oilers his job will be considered a success in my opinion. All this "lack of success" was what a lot of people consider to be a low point in his career.

I don't think people are realizing just how poor of performance the Oilers have had since 2006, it's almost mathematically impossible if you were to take everything into consideration. Nobody on CP is an active or retired GM or POHO as far as I know and I am sure each and every poster on CP can put together a hockey club and staff that has been a bottom feeder for almost 15 years.

Hell if Holland could achieve half of what he did in Detroit as a Flames GM I would have taken it. The Flames are a hockey club that really hasn't been a factor in anything for 30+ years and I am saying that as a diehard Flames fan who's 34. I've actually seen nothing of importance success wise that I can really remember outside of 04 and that's getting tiring to be honest.

Someone on CP mentioned after the Colorado series that the record of Edmonton over the long term has allowed Flames fans to have their noses in the air and I agree. Let's start to worry about the premier clubs in the NHL and in sports in general and be more like them.
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Old 05-11-2019, 11:16 PM   #292
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I am a little surprised at some of the sentiment here with regards to Ken Holland and his track record in Detroit and what he may or may not be able to achieve in Edmonton.
Why is that?

there's an ongoing thread, numbering in the hundreds, if not over a thousand, pages called Edmonton=No Good.

pretty easy to maintain a slow descent into mediocrity when you are coming down from a Stanley Cup winning team... that's not to say Holland wasn't instrumental in creating that success; he very well may have been.

Since that time, the arrow has been pointing down, and it coincided with AGMs Yzerman and Nill leaving... There's a good argument that can be made that this was a causal relationship, as he's never been able to stop that descent in mediocrity

funny thing about looking at Holland's record is that Chiarelli had a better record in boston in his nine years before he was fired:

Won Stanley Cup 1 time in 2 finals appearances (2011, 2013)
Won Presidents' Trophy (2013–14)
2 conference titles, 4 division titles, and 7 playoff appearances

i was little worried when Chiarelli was hired; clearly i misjudged how dysfunctional the Oilers organization was...

Not going to worry about Holland until there's tangible results.

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Old 05-12-2019, 01:18 AM   #293
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They say you're the sum of the five people you most spend your time around. And this is why every new Oilers GM is doomed to failure, regardless of history or prior success.

Enjoy your "sail into the sunset" deal, good sir.
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Old 05-12-2019, 08:31 AM   #294
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I'm actually surprised NHL teams seem to keep recycling old GM's as the trend in sports is to go younger at management (I think 75% of MLB GM's are under 50). I don't see a lot of upside in hiring a soon to be 64 year old GM that's long on the tooth and just got replaced by the younger and better version of himself in Detroit. I could see if the Oilers were on the cusp of winning the cup and needed a veteran GM to make some key tweaks but we are talking about a team that's made the playoffs once in 12 years that needs a lot of work. I don't think the Flames would be in as good a place as they are today if Burke assumed the GM role full time as you just know he would have added too many truculent players at the expense of skill. Just seems like this league really likes to cling to the dinosaurs.
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Old 05-12-2019, 08:53 AM   #295
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^ With the roster they have, and the promises they made, I think they need to sell hope more than anything.

Hiring an unknown up-and-comer with this roster expecting the playoffs will just end up being another failed GM... but with a name, they can point to history until fans have enough
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Old 05-12-2019, 09:17 AM   #296
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I'm actually surprised NHL teams seem to keep recycling old GM's as the trend in sports is to go younger at management (I think 75% of MLB GM's are under 50). I don't see a lot of upside in hiring a soon to be 64 year old GM that's long on the tooth and just got replaced by the younger and better version of himself in Detroit. I could see if the Oilers were on the cusp of winning the cup and needed a veteran GM to make some key tweaks but we are talking about a team that's made the playoffs once in 12 years that needs a lot of work. I don't think the Flames would be in as good a place as they are today if Burke assumed the GM role full time as you just know he would have added too many truculent players at the expense of skill. Just seems like this league really likes to cling to the dinosaurs.
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^ With the roster they have, and the promises they made, I think they need to sell hope more than anything.

Hiring an unknown up-and-comer with this roster expecting the playoffs will just end up being another failed GM... but with a name, they can point to history until fans have enough
exactly

its all about risk aversion...going out and hiring a complete unknown can go very badly for you if things go sideways - "you hired an unproven guy, of course this was going to happen"

At least with a retread, like the previous poster mentioned, you can point to the past record and say, 'well, look he failed, but i couldn't have known that based on past successes'

A lot of posters weren't sold on Yzerman as a GM when he went to TB: too green, too inexperienced, DRW were successful due to Holland and Nill, etc, but Tampa could hire him because he faced zero scrutiny in that market.

So they were able to hire a bright young GM instead of some washed up GM forced into retirement by the team he spent 30+ years with

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Old 05-12-2019, 09:18 AM   #297
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If he is able to replicate even half of that with the Edmonton Oilers his job will be considered a success in my opinion. All this "lack of success" was what a lot of people consider to be a low point in his career.
So, is that what you think will happen? That he'll achieve "half" the success he had in Detroit? If so, the hiring's a home run. He's starting with two very different situations. Oilers are a tire fire in cap hell, with the OBC parasites going no where.

I doubt he succeeds even 5% of what was achieved in Detroit.
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Old 05-12-2019, 11:05 AM   #298
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exactly

its all about risk aversion...going out and hiring a complete unknown can go very badly for you if things go sideways - "you hired an unproven guy, of course this was going to happen"

At least with a retread, like the previous poster mentioned, you can point to the past record and say, 'well, look he failed, but i couldn't have known that based on past successes'

A lot of posters weren't sold on Yzerman as a GM when he went to TB: too green, too inexperienced, DRW were successful due to Holland and Nill, etc, but Tampa could hire him because he faced zero scrutiny in that market.

So they were able to hire a bright young GM instead of some washed up GM forced into retirement by the team he spent 30+ years with
And how did that work out for Tampa? How did it work out for the Flames hiring a young unproven GM? It seems to me the risk is well worth the reward and to me this is a low ceiling hire. At best they will get what the Wings have got over the past decade which is mediocrity which is an improvement for the Oilers BTW. At worst it's just a continuation of the same. I think Holland isn't going to make a lot of the bad trades Chiarelli did but it's not like the Wings have been unearthing great talent via the draft so the Oilers are going to need some bounces and luck go their way and really they have had plenty of that over the last 15 years and have squandered it.

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Old 05-12-2019, 01:08 PM   #299
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It counts until the salary makes you go over the cap and then you get relief.
I always wondered - why bother?

I am guessing so you can use it to hit the cap floor?
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Old 05-12-2019, 01:12 PM   #300
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And how did that work out for Tampa? How did it work out for the Flames hiring a young unproven GM? It seems to me the risk is well worth the reward and to me this is a low ceiling hire. At best they will get what the Wings have got over the past decade which is mediocrity which is an improvement for the Oilers BTW. At worst it's just a continuation of the same. I think Holland isn't going to make a lot of the bad trades Chiarelli did but it's not like the Wings have been unearthing great talent via the draft so the Oilers are going to need some bounces and luck go their way and really they have had plenty of that over the last 15 years and have squandered it.
no argument from me; i wanted Calgary to hire Yzerman, but the timing didn't work out and TB scooped him up.

i thought TB made a great hire at the time, though it wasn't without risk...hence my last sentence

i've been pretty consistent saying Holland is most likely a bad hire for Edmonton... guys get put out to pasture for a reason usually.
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