Sean Monahan’s biggest offseason

[Stay Golden]

Before the All Star break the team was incredible, the chemistry was great and the overall team comradery was at a high. After the all-star break the MGL trio were not having as much fun and it started to rub off on the rest of the team.

Very seldom even the Purple Power was noticed anymore. Something changed,

Just my personal thought I think Monahan was annoyed he didn't get voted to the allstar game and he definitely deserved it. I also think both of these guys contracts are great for the Flames but are no longer at market value of what happened during this season with other core players contracts around thee league and one if not both realize that. Johnny at 6.7 and Monahan at 6.3m they are worth much more now.

Who knows maybe in private one or both have approached the Flames about restructuring thess deals at 8-8.5m per.

Maybe they are pissed hearing that the rumors are Chucky because of the new market is going to get around 7.5m per.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

Before the All Star break the team was incredible, the chemistry was great and the overall team comradery was at a high. After the all-star break the MGL trio were not having as much fun and it started to rub off on the rest of the team.

Very seldom even the Purple Power was noticed anymore. Something changed,

Just my personal thought I think Monahan was annoyed he didn't get voted to the allstar game and he definitely deserved it. I also think both of these guys contracts are great for the Flames but are no longer at market value of what happened during this season with other core players contracts around thee league and one if not both realize that. Johnny at 6.7 and Monahan at 6.3m they are worth much more now.

Who knows maybe in private one or both have approached the Flames about restructuring thess deals at 8-8.5m per.

Maybe they are pissed hearing that the rumors are Chucky because of the new market is going to get around 7.5m per.

Deals can’t be restructured.


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[TheSquatch]

Originally Posted by Psytic

Break up Monahan and Johnny. Force Monahan to create on his own. He did it in junior if I remember right he wasn't on a stacked team. Take that option away from him like in his first year in the NHL. I think its better for his development to become a more rounded player, force him to drive his own line.

Yep, break 'em up and tell them it's permanent. Tell Monahan he needs to do more work, and tell Johnny he no longer has that "where's Monahan" as his 1a option - do something else.

Trouble is, you do this, and the fanbase after 1 loss will be like "Wow our coach is the dumbest guy in hockey!"

[mile]

Originally Posted by Psytic

Break up Monahan and Johnny. Force Monahan to create on his own. He did it in junior if I remember right he wasn't on a stacked team. Take that option away from him like in his first year in the NHL. I think its better for his development to become a more rounded player, force him to drive his own line.

Monahan was praised for his playmaking ability in scouting reports from junior. I think he has it in him, but being with a better playmaker in Johnny has definitely hurt any potential growth in that aspect of his game.


The most frustrating thing for me is his awkward-looking body positioning near the boards when he's trying to forecheck and battle for pucks. Looks like he has no idea how to shift his weight into his legs and the ice and assert himself.

[TheSquatch]

Just watching the Bruins vs Jackets and in the last minutes here Pastrnak knocks in a gorgeous one-timer after Marchand hammers a pass to him while looking "shot" the whole way....

honestly, our guys aren't this good, none of 'em.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by TheSquatch

Just watching the Bruins vs Jackets and in the last minutes here Pastrnak knocks in a gorgeous one-timer after Marchand hammers a pass to him while looking "shot" the whole way....

honestly, our guys aren't this good, none of 'em.

Oh god

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Psytic

Break up Monahan and Johnny. Force Monahan to create on his own. He did it in junior if I remember right he wasn't on a stacked team. Take that option away from him like in his first year in the NHL. I think its better for his development to become a more rounded player, force him to drive his own line.

If the team can find good skating right winger that has a dangerous shot, and Peters commits with moving Lindholm to centre, then this is something to consider. Another option is instead of a right winger, get a centre that does the same thing I want, but I find that less likely.

Monahan/Tkachuk/Bennett(?) together though I don't feel would be as good as Lindholm/Tkachuk/Bennett would be. With Tkachuk speed, would prefer that there is more speed down the middle. If Monahan does get faster though, then it would be moot.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Joborule

If the team can find good skating right winger that has a dangerous shot, and Peters commits with moving Lindholm to centre, then this is something to consider. Another option is instead of a right winger, get a centre that does the same thing I want, but I find that less likely.

Monahan/Tkachuk/Bennett(?) together though I don't feel would be as good as Lindholm/Tkachuk/Bennett would be. With Tkachuk speed, would prefer that there is more speed down the middle. If Monahan does get faster though, then it would be moot.

Is this one of those ‘jumbo shrimp’ things?

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Psytic

Break up Monahan and Johnny. Force Monahan to create on his own. He did it in junior if I remember right he wasn't on a stacked team. Take that option away from him like in his first year in the NHL. I think its better for his development to become a more rounded player, force him to drive his own line.

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk 1st line in this scenario?

Bennett-Monahan-Mangiapane could be an interesting line? Maybe look for an upgrade on the right wing on that line? Hope Neal bounces back?

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by 442scotty

It’s hard to skate with speed when Gaudreau has the puck and holds onto it while zig zagging all over the place. To me it looks like Monahan has to slow down and try and read Johnny. It would be interesting to see Monahan placed with wingers that are more north/south. I’m a huge Gaudreau fan but I’ve said it before. I think Gaudreau is holding back Monahans personal development in some areas.

Wait a minute here - he's slow getting back even when Gaudreau doesn't have the puck zig-zagging back and forth!

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by TheSquatch

Just watching the Bruins vs Jackets and in the last minutes here Pastrnak knocks in a gorgeous one-timer after Marchand hammers a pass to him while looking "shot" the whole way....

honestly, our guys aren't this good, none of 'em.

So you never saw a gorgeous pass by Johnny to Monahan or Lindholm for a pin point one timer? Heck, I saw a great pass by Gaudreau to freakin' Neal for a great goal once.

That was indeed a great goal by Pasternak. But it's silly to say it's a play that Calgary's top line couldn't do. Because they have.

[TheSquatch]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

So you never saw a gorgeous pass by Johnny to Monahan or Lindholm for a pin point one timer? Heck, I saw a great pass by Gaudreau to freakin' Neal for a great goal once.

That was indeed a great goal by Pasternak. But it's silly to say it's a play that Calgary's top line couldn't do. Because they have.

Wellll.... when have they? I don't mean I've never seen them score a nice goal, obviously they have scored plenty.

But. Pressure's on, game's on the line (a playoff game on the line), final minutes of the 3rd period, and Marchand comes up at full speed, handles the puck like an ace, and not only does he make the perfect pass at speed, but he looks the goalie off the whole time, doesn't look up for the pass option even once. So that's pretty top-flight stuff, and not only that, but Pastrnak buries it. Again, game on the line and the play is there. It literally WAS NOT THERE for the Flames top line for the last... I dunno, 3 months, and certainly not there in the playoffs. The had no ability to put the foot on the throat, as it were.

What I saw out of Johnny and Monny in the last half of the season and demonstrably in the playoffs was that they don't have this ability, or enough of it. I saw Johnny go too slow, overhandle the puck on breakaways, then next time outhink himself and shoot early (and wide), just for an example. I didn't see Monahan do... anything, really, in the playoffs. He chipped in a goal from the slot, as ANY centerman in the league could have done in the same spot.

So again, I'm not saying these guys are terrible, and talking specifically about Monahan I'm not saying trade him or anything like that. But I will stand my ground in saying he's not an elite centerman in this league, and I'm not sure he's 1c on a deep playoff oriented team. I thought he looked lost in the playoffs, and I thought it was a carryover from the post-break season, honestly. Didn't see much battle, and didn't see a lot of skill play either. Same as Janko but with a better knack for scoring close in (and better linemates). Just ... not enough there to be super excited about.

This puts me in a camp of people who feel that the guys here who think Monahan is a really really good 1c have homer-glasses on. I get that he's a 30 goal guy. Great. What'd that get us this year?

Nothing. And the Bruins will ... probably... move on tonight to conference finals, and probably, that top line will kick ass.

[TheSquatch]

I'll add: the Backes goal tonight was what I expect and hope for from Monahan - burst to the net, get a deflection and in it goes. It's a skill play, but one lots of guys can make.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by TheSquatch

I'll add: the Backes goal tonight was what I expect and hope for from Monahan - burst to the net, get a deflection and in it goes. It's a skill play, but one lots of guys can make.

Monahan just doesn’t have that kind of ability or emotion to his game. He isn’t that kind of player. And that’s the kind of player the Flames need as their #1 center if they want to call themselves contenders.

[calgaryfox]

Anyone expecting Monahan to turn his game around will be waiting an eternity. His speed, or lack of, has been evident for years. Conroy hopes he will concentrate on his weaker skillsets over the summer, but any off season training to try to correct this issue is probably 10 years too late. He skates like he's wearing lead boots.

As for his intensity level, what you see is what you get....a continuous flatline with an occasional beep.

Don't get me wrong, he's a fantastic sniper during the regular season and he piles up the points when he's feeding off a silver platter, but when he has to fight for crumbs in the playoffs, he's a liability.

He would definitely be a critical piece for a team that needs offense to get into the playoffs, but I would welcome a trade for a 1c who scores fewer points but can hit, cause a disturbance and be defensibly responsible.

[Psytic]

I still think he has it in him. He has been playing down to a one dimensional level because he can get away with it on Johnnys line. I remember his first NHL season he looked way more dynamic and carried the play on his own. He just needs to be pushed. He needs to know hes the guy and Johnny's not on his line anymore to do the cerebral work. He has another gear he was better before they were paired up.

[Erick Estrada]

I get that fans are disappointed but the NHL is year to year. After a few weeks I've settled down and come to accept that this was a great season that didn't lead to a championship and I'll take that over crap season after crap season which Oilers and Canucks fans have been enduring. This wasn't the Flames year in the playoffs but that doesn't mean that this group isn't capable. Nobody has mentioned Jordan Staal's name in years yet he's been a beast in these playoffs. It's all about timing and this year just wasn't the Flames time but Monahan is only 24 and has plenty of good years ahead of him as Patrice Bergeron never hit his stride until his late 20's. The criticism of the teams best players is getting a little over the top and just as Lightning fans shouldn't be turning on their team after a great regular season nor should Flames fans. You can argue that most of the best players in the league didn't make it to the 2nd round this season so 2019 NHL playoff failure is not just a Flames thing.

[TheSquatch]

It's not even that they didn't make it through the first round - Monahan (cuz that's who this thread is about) stunk for months - enough that we were wondering if his wrist was screwed up for real again.

It wasn't. So... uh-oh spaghettio.


Monahan is drifting into that Ryan Nugent-Hopkins sort of zone... is this guy really good or is he sort of really good at one thing and a bunch of the rest of his game is not really there.

Broader: I think fans of this team and ownership too have for a long time over-rated their own assets. The attitude of the team with Sutter as GM was "we're like, 1 piece away from a cup" and the truth was, they were a Kiprusoff injury away from a lottery pick.

I think guys like Jankowski who we want to love cuz he's our pick after all.... just don't have enough skill or grunt to make it in the NHL - another Josh Jooris, a tweener. And we've got lots of those up front, I hate to say it. We have 1 real dangerous winger. ONE. And teams are booked up on him now. Lindholm might be a second, but he's not REAL dangerous, he's not a sniper, he's a good hockey player - league is full of 'em.

Do we hope for Czarnik to come along? Hell yeah. Is he gonna be Pastrnak? Hell no!

Buncha mediocre wingers, buncha mediocre centermen (I do love Backlund, he works so hard, but I'd love it if he was a 3c). I think our D are good enough, but they can't handle a real fast hard game because the forwards are not a) helping enough and b) dangerous enough. I think these playoffs showed a real weakness in playing style, or maybe in ability.

Maybe we DO need a Kadri, I dunno.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by TheSquatch

....Monahan is drifting into that Ryan Nugent-Hopkins sort of zone... is this guy really good or is he sort of really good at one thing and a bunch of the rest of his game is not really there...

Oh, god. So much nonsense.

I think guys like Jankowski who we want to love cuz he's our pick after all.... just don't have enough skill or grunt to make it in the NHL - another Josh Jooris, a tweener.

Agreed, but for the small difference that Mark Jankowski is a monumentally better player than 29-year-old AHL regular Josh Jooris.

And we've got lots of those up front, I hate to say it. We have 1 real dangerous winger. ONE. And teams are booked up on him now. Lindholm might be a second, but he's not REAL dangerous, he's not a sniper, he's a good hockey player - league is full of 'em.

Matthew Tkachuk??

...Buncha mediocre wingers, buncha mediocre centermen (I do love Backlund, he works so hard, but I'd love it if he was a 3c). I think our D are good enough, but they can't handle a real fast hard game because the forwards are not a) helping enough and b) dangerous enough. I think these playoffs showed a real weakness in playing style, or maybe in ability...

This is one of the more impressive under-sells of the Flames on a magnitude I have rarely seen on this site, and that itself is an impressive achievement.

I will counter to suggest that these playoffs perhaps revealed some holes in the Flames lineup, but nothing so glaring as you are asserting here. Or rather, they showed that the second best team in the NHL over the course of the season has a bad couple of weeks. It happens. It doesn’t have to define them.


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[TheSquatch]

Yeah, fair, Tkachuk is genuinely dangerous.

Yes, I am leaning hard here, and perhaps ridiculously so, although if that's the case it's not intentional.


The Flames had a great season. Moreso, they did it on top of a goaltending performance that was... well, kinda awful early one. We were all happy to play the Avs (instead of a team like Dallas, for example, who have successfully stifled the Flames for years). And then got trampled. Absolutely trampled. And you can say it was overtime, and you can say it was a post away or whatever, but the truth is, big picture, the Flames had no answer for a fast, hard-nosed game. They were shell-shocked, as a group.

Monahan's part in this is that he did nothing in the playoffs. He got a goal from the slot. Woo. I thought his play after the break was half-hearted (actually I was convinced he was injured). Same in the playoffs- watching him actively avoid hits, failing to engage in battles... I'm watching him thinking "This guy doesn't like hockey." James Neal played the same game. Perimeter game, waiting for the puck, or ... something.

So I'm stuck at "This guy has a knack for popping in shots from 3 feet out." That's not trivial. 30 goals. But he doesn't have a knack for back checking, doesn't have a knack for getting to deep pucks first, doesn't have a knack for knocking snot out of people.... like, there's a long list of stuff he really should be better at, no?