[News] You be the boss results are in

[Salt Water Cowboy #10]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

No, Brodie's mistake is constantly making boneheaded passes/ plays, playing timid and weak in the corners, and being directly responsible for several notable goals against in this playoff series alone.

The defense is better when TJ plays less.

So they should play him less.maybe not on the top line either. But I don’t get the hate for a good skating D with offensive upside on a reasonable contract. He made some dumb plays, and he isn’t perfect. But he sure isn’t payed like he is.
What does everyone think he’s going to get paid? I’d say he’ll get about the same as he makes now. Which is in line with a 3-4 D. He’s worth what he makes. Everyone expects him to play like a 1-2, but he doesn’t get paid that much. He’s good value. But the young guys gotta get paid soon too. If he gets traded, hopefully we get something decent in return, but he wouldn’t be bad to have if h stays and signs for another 3-4 years at a reasonable price

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I don't really remember Valimaki getting his butt whipped. What I remember most vividly is the second pairing getting absolutely dominated and Brodie/Gio playing OK but Brodie with some huge mistakes that really cost the team.

Which mistakes were those, that "really cost the team"?

As far as I can recall the only costly mistakes he made in the entire series were

- failing to play a bad pass from Andersson with his body, resulting in a game-tying breakaway in game 2. The Flames still proceeded to score the next goal after that to take the lead The game was then lost with Giordano on the ice for each goal against, but Hamonic and then Andersson were Gio's partners on those goals against. But like with most costly mistakes, mistakes were made by more than just Brodie.

- having a failed pinch down multiple goals in game 3 that led to an odd man rush. A competent backchecking effort by the forwards would still have prevented this goal. A different (tied/close) game score would have meant no pinch - this was a calculated gamble.

What other mistakes are you talking about?

You wanna talk about costly goals against or penalties I can wager there were defensemen including Giordano, Hamonic, Andersson, and especially the tirefire that was Hanifin who had costlier gaffes in the series. Gio had a powerplay mistake, I believe in game 3, that was worse than Brodie's powerplay "mistake" in game 2.

Or maybe you're talking about ultimately uncostly gaffes that just made people angry.

Valimaki was excellent though, I agree with you there as well as that our second pair got dominated. I just think those Brodie "mistakes" get overblown to epic proportions. If Gio and Brodie played exactly the same series, except

1) Peters doesn't irrationally demote Brodie in games 2 and 3
2) the rest of the team plays a better series

I don't think we would have lost in the first round. So singling Brodie out for some mistakes (and mistakes happen - to everyone on every team) just gets on my nerves.

[BigBrodieFan]

Originally Posted by the2bears

You were in the Denver area before, right? I've never been to Houston, but I feel, somehow, that it'd be too humid for me. Visited Austin a month back with work, loved the vibe there. Great music scene.

I lived in Grand Junction, CO for awhile but I've spent most of my American life in Overland Park, KS (Kansas City Area). Hubby has acres and cattle here in Houston area and I stayed in KC til my youngest finished high school, but I could no longer prolong the inevitable, lol, and instead of being a weekend wife I had to make the permanent move My youngest son is at UT in Austin and he LOVES everything about Austin, especially the fact that dogs are everywhere. He's going to school to be a small animal vet, and the 'pet friendly' culture is very appealing to him.

Houston is too humid for life in general, and Austin isn't as bad, nor as big of course. Love the slogan 'Keep Austin Weird.'

[BigBrodieFan]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Which mistakes were those, that "really cost the team"?

As far as I can recall the only costly mistakes he made in the entire series were

- failing to play a bad pass from Andersson with his body, resulting in a game-tying breakaway in game 2. The Flames still proceeded to score the next goal after that to take the lead The game was then lost with Giordano on the ice for each goal against, but Hamonic and then Andersson were Gio's partners on those goals against. But like with most costly mistakes, mistakes were made by more than just Brodie.

- having a failed pinch down multiple goals in game 3 that led to an odd man rush. A competent backchecking effort by the forwards would still have prevented this goal. A different (tied/close) game score would have meant no pinch - this was a calculated gamble.

What other mistakes are you talking about?

You wanna talk about costly goals against or penalties I can wager there were defensemen including Giordano, Hamonic, Andersson, and especially the tirefire that was Hanifin who had costlier gaffes in the series. Gio had a powerplay mistake, I believe in game 3, that was worse than Brodie's powerplay "mistake" in game 2.

Or maybe you're talking about ultimately uncostly gaffes that just made people angry.

Valimaki was excellent though, I agree with you there as well as that our second pair got dominated. I just think those Brodie "mistakes" get overblown to epic proportions. If Gio and Brodie played exactly the same series, except

1) Peters doesn't irrationally demote Brodie in games 2 and 3
2) the rest of the team plays a better series

I don't think we would have lost in the first round. So singling Brodie out for some mistakes (and mistakes happen - to everyone on every team) just gets on my nerves.

[BigBrodieFan]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Yeah, yeah. I know all the arguments for and against the stat.

While we are being pedantic, I will then beg to differ on your selection of word ‘useless’. It absolutely benefits from context. But it is not useless. Fact is that at even strength, that many more goals were scored by the Flames than against. Outscoring other teams wins games. Players who are on the ice for more goals for than against help teams win these games. They most likely have made a useful contribution to their team, especially when that number is large.

Often the context you reference is that there are 5 other guys on the ice. Sometimes you have players that get an absolute number that looks good by virtue of a team being good.

A team that scores, say, 40 more than it allows in even strength situations will have generally higher +/- across the board than one that is more break even, so player on team x would have a different number on team y. On those teams, it is often interesting to look at numbers compared to their teammates.

Derek Ryan and Mark Jankowski had pretty different +/- numbers.

Fact is for Brodie that his +/- was, what, top 10 in the entire league?

At some point, when your number is high relative to most of your teammates, and over 97 percent of the skaters in the league, you must not be the detriment that some knuckleheads hear are trying to paint you

So in my opinion, you can’t argue with +29 (enough to try to make the case that some people want to)

It's funny to see people argue that +29 means nothing, but last year's - whatever meant everything.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by BigBrodieFan

It's funny to see people argue that +29 means nothing, but last year's - whatever meant everything.

As always, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. This is especially true of Brodie as he has some great plays in a game and then can turn around and make an absolutely atrocious gaffe.

It's nothing personal BTW, it's just an honest evaluation of the player's abilities and value. Modern sports makes us all incredibly critical of players from moment to moment.

Just as an example, Mike Smith went from goat for the season to the g.o.a.t. in the playoffs. The Neal signing looked like a brilliant addition to the top 6 before the season started, and now he looks like an albatross. Sports is always about what have you done for me lately.

[axgq]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Which mistakes were those, that "really cost the team"?

As far as I can recall the only costly mistakes he made in the entire series were

- failing to play a bad pass from Andersson with his body, resulting in a game-tying breakaway in game 2. The Flames still proceeded to score the next goal after that to take the lead The game was then lost with Giordano on the ice for each goal against, but Hamonic and then Andersson were Gio's partners on those goals against. But like with most costly mistakes, mistakes were made by more than just Brodie.

- having a failed pinch down multiple goals in game 3 that led to an odd man rush. A competent backchecking effort by the forwards would still have prevented this goal. A different (tied/close) game score would have meant no pinch - this was a calculated gamble.

What other mistakes are you talking about?

You wanna talk about costly goals against or penalties I can wager there were defensemen including Giordano, Hamonic, Andersson, and especially the tirefire that was Hanifin who had costlier gaffes in the series. Gio had a powerplay mistake, I believe in game 3, that was worse than Brodie's powerplay "mistake" in game 2.

Or maybe you're talking about ultimately uncostly gaffes that just made people angry.

Valimaki was excellent though, I agree with you there as well as that our second pair got dominated. I just think those Brodie "mistakes" get overblown to epic proportions. If Gio and Brodie played exactly the same series, except

1) Peters doesn't irrationally demote Brodie in games 2 and 3
2) the rest of the team plays a better series

I don't think we would have lost in the first round. So singling Brodie out for some mistakes (and mistakes happen - to everyone on every team) just gets on my nerves.

I think most people on this forum already make reasons to put the "blame" on Brodie. Like you said he does make mistakes and so does every other d-man on the team. I would say that Gio's footspeed was also one of the reasons the Av's top line was able to do anything they wanted to us.

IMO if the Flames trade Brodie, we will be worse in our top 6.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by axgq

I think most people on this forum already make reasons to put the "blame" on Brodie. Like you said he does make mistakes and so does every other d-man on the team. I would say that Gio's footspeed was also one of the reasons the Av's top line was able to do anything they wanted to us.

IMO if the Flames trade Brodie, we will be worse in our top 6.

So the Avs dominated the Flames because they took advantage of the likely winner of the Norris trophy? Some of you need to take a step back. Every defenseman makes mistakes but few make them like Brodie. There's a reason guys like Brodie and Gardiner are so polarizing as they can be part of the reason you win a game but at times almost a sole reason you lose a game and in a team sport you never want a player that can single-handedly lose games for you. I feel there would be games the Flames would miss Brodie in the lineup for sure but I also think the Flames defense has never played defensively as well as they should on paper and moving on from a guy that makes a lot of mistakes will probably be of a bigger benefit in the long term.

[BigBrodieFan]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

As always, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. This is especially true of Brodie as he has some great plays in a game and then can turn around and make an absolutely atrocious gaffe.

It's nothing personal BTW, it's just an honest evaluation of the player's abilities and value. Modern sports makes us all incredibly critical of players from moment to moment.

Just as an example, Mike Smith went from goat for the season to the g.o.a.t. in the playoffs. The Neal signing looked like a brilliant addition to the top 6 before the season started, and now he looks like an albatross. Sports is always about what have you done for me lately.

Of course it's not personal. I am simply a 'motherly type' and to be honest, I feel bad for every single Flames player who gets lambasted for making a mistake. I understand that the logistics for TJ getting traded make perfect sense to the team and to him. It's just an adjustment to get used to the idea that he may not play for the Flames in the future. This hit me especially hard when his 'draft party' pictures showed up as a memory on my fb feed the other day. (onions!)

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by BigBrodieFan

Of course it's not personal. I am simply a 'motherly type' and to be honest, I feel bad for every single Flames player who gets lambasted for making a mistake. I understand that the logistics for TJ getting traded make perfect sense to the team and to him. It's just an adjustment to get used to the idea that he may not play for the Flames in the future. This hit me especially hard when his 'draft party' pictures showed up as a memory on my fb feed the other day. (onions!)

I would like to see him traded to the Leafs. Not because I hate the Leafs and I think he would make them worse or anything but he would get to be closer to home and we would get to see him play every Saturday.

[BigBrodieFan]

Originally Posted by erick estrada

i would like to see him traded to the leafs. Not because i hate the leafs and i think he would make them worse or anything but he would get to be closer to home and we would get to see him play every saturday.

<3

[Dion]

Originally Posted by BigBrodieFan

<3

This place would be poorer if we lost the both of you

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Yeah, I guess I imagined any and all of Andersson’s and Valimaki’s turnovers.

I’ll take Peters assessment over yours, no offense.

Reading comprehension fail.

I never said they didn't make mistakes They just recover better from them .

[Split98]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

Reading comprehension fail.

I never said they didn't make mistakes They just recover better from them .

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

Reading comprehension fail.

I never said they didn't make mistakes They just recover better from them .

You are right. Andersson recovers better ... on the bench after he hands the puck to the Avs and Colin Wilson scores.

https://www.nbcsports.com/video/coli...avalanche-goal

[Stay Golden]

Man there is a lot of real stupid fans represented in those poll numbers.
The regular season was a 100% success the won their division and the entire West.

Those in favor of trading Monahan or Gaudreau should be a extremely small %. The Flames need to add to this not take away and dismantle, just stupid that a combined 45% actually think one of them should be traded.
It's a good thing Treliving realizes he has a great nucleus now you add physical power type forwards. The Flames need 2 or 3 and it would make a huge difference in the playoffs.

Put me all in for trading Neal, trading Neal for a 4th player or an AHL player I would be perfectly happy with. Neal stole a fat paycheck all season. What disgusts me is that there are rumors he will get promoted to 1st line.
He has earned nothing. Peers and Treliving owe him nothing. If any team is interested in Neal make the trade unless the Flames are being asked to absorb part of this scrubs salary plus taking on another teams bad salary scrub. At worst I am completly good with exchanging our roster headache for another teams roster headache.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

Man there is a lot of real stupid fans represented in those poll numbers.
The regular season was a 100% success the won their division and the entire West.

Those in favor of trading Monahan or Gaudreau should be a extremely small %. The Flames need to add to this not take away and dismantle, just stupid that a combined 45% actually think one of them should be traded.
It's a good thing Treliving realizes he has a great nucleus now you add physical power type forwards. The Flames need 2 or 3 and it would make a huge difference in the playoffs.

Put me all in for trading Neal, trading Neal for a 4th player or an AHL player I would be perfectly happy with. Neal stole a fat paycheck all season. What disgusts me is that there are rumors he will get promoted to 1st line.
He has earned nothing. Peers and Treliving owe him nothing. If any team is interested in Neal make the trade unless the Flames are being asked to absorb part of this scrubs salary plus taking on another teams bad salary scrub. At worst I am completly good with exchanging our roster headache for another teams roster headache.

I'm pretty sure any assignment for Neal is predicated on what he shows in camp after saying he was going to work hard in the off-season. If he earns a "promotion" in camp, meaning he can contribute in some way on the 2nd or 1st line, I'm good with that. I don't hear anyone saying to just throw him on there based on this year's play. But if he can get to his previous levels of play, sure.

[gamesaver]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

What does this even mean?

The Flames certainly know how to lose.

They need to learn to win in the playoffs.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

You need to learn how frustrating the playoff loss is especially after a great regular season, and how empty you feel after that when your expectation were so high. This is what will give you that extra gear nextime when you are facing the same situation, just refuse to live through that emotions again. It's called getting experience. Flames just entered the window, and it's possible they will have multiple great regular seasons in row just like the Caps and that they will have multiple embarassing playoff exists, until they will get lucky one year and booom. Pretty much like the Caps. My concern is the health of Monahan and if Peters is a good coach. Watching Canes without him is really confusing.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by gamesaver

You need to learn how frustrating the playoff loss is especially after a great regular season, and how empty you feel after that when your expectation were so high. This is what will give you that extra gear nextime when you are facing the same situation, just refuse to live through that emotions again. It's called getting experience. Flames just entered the window, and it's possible they will have multiple great regular seasons in row just like the Caps and that they will have multiple embarassing playoff exists, until they will get lucky one year and booom. Pretty much like the Caps. My concern is the health of Monahan and if Peters is a good coach. Watching Canes without him is really confusing.

The original quote was "you need to learn to lose before you can win".

No one needs to learn to lose, it can come quite naturally.

I believe you may need to lose before you learn to win. Which is exactly what you are saying.

[8sPOT]

I almost think they should do another poll once people have taken a step back and took some emotion out of the decisions. When that poll ran I wanted to trade almost the whole team. But after some reflection and looking at the bigger picture, this team is still pretty damn good. Add some pieces here and there (hopefully a top 6 forward) and I like the look, a lot.