unethical business experience *LONG READ*

[Misterpants]

Man without sounding tinfoil hatty, I never really considered the monetization of this system as a little ####fighting ring provided by google to watch the monkeys fight all the while cashing in on every step of the way. So next we introduce the customer rating system by google for businesses to decide what customers are worthy and we have to pay google to advertise how we tipped 22% last week and left the hotel room immaculate instead of leaving a turd in the bidet.

I will admit, I love watching a good smack down response from a business that responds with what actually happened. Those are the only google review things I pay any attention to since I assume all other reviews are either fake or someone's bad day barfed onto the internet.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

But yet you still seem to give bad business owners a pass or the benefit of the doubt. I get it, you're looking at it from a business owner point of view, so of course you'd have bias. But there's always two sides to the story, and I feel like you're way leaning in favour of one side.

I'm talking about reviews in general more than the original OP.

On this one, yes, there is another side we haven't heard.

I don't like reviews good or bad, though. I just know they aren't fair or objective and they hurt one group of people while another group profits off that conflict.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Misterpants

Man without sounding tinfoil hatty, I never really considered the monetization of this system as a little ####fighting ring provided by google to watch the monkeys fight all the while cashing in on every step of the way. So next we introduce the customer rating system by google for businesses to decide what customers are worthy and we have to pay google to advertise how we tipped 22% last week and left the hotel room immaculate instead of leaving a turd in the bidet.

I will admit, I love watching a good smack down response from a business that responds with what actually happened. Those are the only google review things I pay any attention to since I assume all other reviews are either fake or someone's bad day barfed onto the internet.

Yeah, it's like that episode of Black Mirror that was super horrifying where people rate other people based on the tiniest interaction and you walk around with a virtual score above your head.

Except for a business owner, it is real life. We are existing like that right now and everyone can see every business's rating by just pulling out their phone.

If all of you had to carry the weight of a "rating" for all to see you would agree with me. Especially once you considered it's a rigged game set up to enrich a third party that could not care less about the integrity of the reviews or the fallout for the businesses.

[Misterpants]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Yeah, it's like that episode of Black Mirror that was super horrifying where people rate other people based on the tiniest interaction and you walk around with a virtual score above your head.

Except for a business owner, it is real life. We are existing like that right now and everyone can see every business's rating by just pulling out their phone.

If all of you had to carry the weight of a "rating" for all to see you would agree with me. Especially once you considered it's a rigged game set up to enrich a third party that could not care less about the integrity of the reviews or the fallout for the businesses.

Yeah I'd still be wearing the albatross of when i had my then toddler in my arms while distractedly paying for something and and he just reached out and pulled a giant glass vase full of frigging beads over to smash on the floor. I didn't protest to loudly when they declined my weak offer to help clean as I wrestled my flailing son.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I'm talking about reviews in general more than the original OP.

On this one, yes, there is another side we haven't heard.

I don't like reviews good or bad, though. I just know they aren't fair or objective and they hurt one group of people while another group profits off that conflict.

You haven't answered the question about it being a zero sum game, and maybe that is where the disconnect is. All competitors are generally playing by the same rules. Any bad reviews just steer customers to another company that is also providing for their family, etc.

I often look at reviews after the fact if I've had a particularly good or bad experience, and generally speaking they are pretty in line with my experience.

I have no problem with the people paying me seeing my performance reviews or having my employer give feedback to someone else who wants to pay me. It seems fair to know who they are paying for.

[Monahammer]

Sliver seems to believe that everyone should be worshipping the ground that any sort of business owner walks on.

For the record, business owners do owe customers above and beyond service, if they want to keep those customers long term.


What you seem to be avoiding Sliver is that business is a competition. Customer reviews are part of that competition. Honest reviewing is integral to helping inform other customers of the results of that competition.
Yes, there are dishonest reviews. But a bad customer experience deserves to get reviewed so that other customers know which business is winning the competition for their services. Otherwise we're all just thralls to bad business owners who maximize profit above customer service, employee treatment, etc.

[The Yen Man]

I dunno, just because a business gets a random bad review here and there, I don't just automatically write them off. I assume there's two sides to it. I especially appreciate when owners take the time to give their side of the story after the review, which shows they were serious of either rectifying the issue or the original complaint from the customer was unreasonable.

I get there's ton of Karen's out there with nothing better to do than give garbage reviews, but I still think it's still really useful as a consumer to see 3 star reviews that give in depth feedback on why the service was ok, but not great. It's way better feedback to me than just some one sentence glowing review.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Sliver seems to believe that everyone should be worshipping the ground that any sort of business owner walks on.

How you could read my words and come to that conclusion makes me question how you were even able to log onto this site.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Sliver seems to believe that everyone should be worshipping the ground that any sort of business owner walks on.

For the record, business owners do owe customers above and beyond service, if they want to keep those customers long term.

Karen? Is that you?

Hey, stop being so entitled. What a terrible attitude.

Honestly, go to r/antiwork for a bit and get some perspective.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Yeah, it's like that episode of Black Mirror that was super horrifying where people rate other people based on the tiniest interaction and you walk around with a virtual score above your head.

Except for a business owner, it is real life. We are existing like that right now and everyone can see every business's rating by just pulling out their phone.

If all of you had to carry the weight of a "rating" for all to see you would agree with me. Especially once you considered it's a rigged game set up to enrich a third party that could not care less about the integrity of the reviews or the fallout for the businesses.

That's one way to view it. Or you could view it as feedback to learn from and areas to try to get better. I don't know you, but you strike me as a perfectionist. The perfectionists I know are rarely as perfect as they think they are. A big reason for that is they usually can't accept or learn from any criticism as they see it as an attack on them.

I don't think all business owners view things this way. I gave an example of my Vet friend who has what I think is a very healthy view of reviews, and they accept they are going to get some crappy reviews from some crappy customers, but use some as learning experiences. I am fairly certain that his whole staff doesn't go into a funk from one bad review, as I'm sure his attitude of handling these reviews passes down to his employees.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I'm talking about reviews in general more than the original OP.

On this one, yes, there is another side we haven't heard.

I don't like reviews good or bad, though. I just know they aren't fair or objective and they hurt one group of people while another group profits off that conflict.

I do get your perspective, but I'm also sure you must appreciate that you rely on customers to earn a living.

In a perfect world, how would customers decide which businesses to patronize? Do you not want your customers sharing their experiences?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

For the record, business owners do owe customers above and beyond service, if they want to keep those customers long term.

What you seem to be avoiding Sliver is that business is a competition. Customer reviews are part of that competition. Honest reviewing is integral to helping inform other customers of the results of that competition.
Yes, there are dishonest reviews. But a bad customer experience deserves to get reviewed so that other customers know which business is winning the competition for their services. Otherwise we're all just thralls to bad business owners who maximize profit above customer service, employee treatment, etc.

This is wrong on a few points.

The first being that business owners owe customers exactly what they say they’ll deliver. No more, no less. They do not owe “above and beyond” customer service. Think of a barber. You look at a place like Tommy Guns, free drink, nice couches, tvs, friendly people… above and beyond, right? But there’s a higher than normal chance they’ll screw up your hair. Would you rather go to them, with their above and beyond service, or a no frills barber who nails the cut every time? Or even charges less for the same quality of service? The answer is obvious.

The second that being while it is a competition, you’re basically ignoring the entire reality of the review system, which is that it usually only tells you who is paying the most money, not who is winning the battle on service alone.

[GGG]

Isn’t the problem that sliver is describing driven by a lack of reviews.

If we all follow Slivers 5 star or no review then all we are left with is fake 5 star reviews, real 5 star reviews, and 1 star reviews from #######s.

The end result of that system is amplifying the affect of fake reviews and ####### reviews. Instead of everyone honestly reviewed everything a 4 star review wouldn’t sand bag a rating and a 3 star wouldn’t be catastrophic to a good business. It would devalue any one review.

So I think Slivers campaign here is actually harming is goal of making ####### customers he doesn’t want less powerful. Dilution is the solution for both business and consumer.

[puckhog]

Originally Posted by Sliver

How you could read my words and come to that conclusion makes me question how you were even able to log onto this site.

In this thread you:

• Suggested that the OP was lying without any basis or rationale for that accusation
• Accused the OP and anyone else who leaves a review other than 5* of attacking the business without giving any consideration of the experience or level of service received
• Suggested that the OP got what he paid for because he bought a used hot tub that was not clean, leaks and was given the wrong electrical information

On the last point, you compared his complaints to you complaining about buying a used VW Golf and having it not be an Audi, which is a ludicrous comparison. It’s more like buying a used VW Golf and having it delivered without a transmission. A dealer selling a used hot tub that leaks is not a minor issue or an outrageous expectation - holding in water is kind of one of the main jobs of a hot tub.

If you think this comes across as anything other than thinking small business owners don’t deserve any criticism, I question if you’ve read the things you’ve written.

Your treatment of the OP aside, I do get your concern about the ratings system and how it can be abused. But I think you have to separate that from the OP’s actions. If everything he said is true (and there’s no basis to think that it’s not), he left a 3* review for what it at best a 3* business. That’s how the review system should work. Leaving a 3* review with no explanation, customers giving 1* reviews for questionable reasons or businesses buying 5* reviews are different issues and I think most of us agree that the system could work better to address those concerns.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

I dunno, just because a business gets a random bad review here and there, I don't just automatically write them off. I assume there's two sides to it. I especially appreciate when owners take the time to give their side of the story after the review, which shows they were serious of either rectifying the issue or the original complaint from the customer was unreasonable.

I get there's ton of Karen's out there with nothing better to do than give garbage reviews, but I still think it's still really useful as a consumer to see 3 star reviews that give in depth feedback on why the service was ok, but not great. It's way better feedback to me than just some one sentence glowing review.

Absolutely the way I think of it too. I rarely, if ever, even look at reviews. When I do, a few poor ones won't drive me away.

I tend to ignore most 1 or 5 star reviews anyway. Most 1 stars are from entitled idiots, most 5 stars are from bots and/or friends and family.

I remember the last time this debate came up on CP, it was about a known fraudster car dealership lying to google to get bad reviews removed and slivers response was basically 'good for them, they should'

[greyshep]

Its been said already, but I think it deserves repeating. Expecting every review to be a 5 devalues the system completely. Having some variable in there with included comments with context that people can investigate and decide for themselves makes the system much better, not worse.

I dont look at a 3/5 as a negative review. I take that as a "good but there is room for improvement". Nothing wrong with that at all and if that is viewed as an "attack", then the business owner needs to look at him/herself in the mirror.

Maybe google should make it mandatory to leave an actual comment with some automated moderation rather than allowing people to just drop 1's or 5's without context.

[RichieRich]

I only roughly look over 5 star reviews as they often don’t add many details. Similarly the 1 scores are often bitter and a result of an exceptional circumstance or person. I get most value out of 3-4’s. I’d rather read about a 3 rating that details what the business did to repair the experience/service.

To me it’s similar to tipping. A 20% tip, much like a “5”, should not be an expectation and is TYPICALLY for exceptional service. Similarly a 3/10% is more the norm, for me. What I’m seeing in these discussions on CP is that business owners experience a real business impact for less than a 5 because of the way the model works. Which does not align with how most consumers behave. Both are equally wrong/right.

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

This is wrong on a few points.

The first being that business owners owe customers exactly what they say they’ll deliver. No more, no less. They do not owe “above and beyond” customer service. Think of a barber. You look at a place like Tommy Guns, free drink, nice couches, tvs, friendly people… above and beyond, right? But there’s a higher than normal chance they’ll screw up your hair. Would you rather go to them, with their above and beyond service, or a no frills barber who nails the cut every time? Or even charges less for the same quality of service? The answer is obvious.

The second that being while it is a competition, you’re basically ignoring the entire reality of the review system, which is that it usually only tells you who is paying the most money, not who is winning the battle on service alone.

You're right I agree, no company has to go above and beyond, but in some industries, the ones who go above and beyond would most likely be more successful than one who just does the minimum.

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by puckhog

In this thread you:

• Suggested that the OP was lying without any basis or rationale for that accusation
• Accused the OP and anyone else who leaves a review other than 5* of attacking the business without giving any consideration of the experience or level of service received
• Suggested that the OP got what he paid for because he bought a used hot tub that was not clean, leaks and was given the wrong electrical information

On the last point, you compared his complaints to you complaining about buying a used VW Golf and having it not be an Audi, which is a ludicrous comparison. It’s more like buying a used VW Golf and having it delivered without a transmission. A dealer selling a used hot tub that leaks is not a minor issue or an outrageous expectation - holding in water is kind of one of the main jobs of a hot tub.

If you think this comes across as anything other than thinking small business owners don’t deserve any criticism, I question if you’ve read the things you’ve written.

Your treatment of the OP aside, I do get your concern about the ratings system and how it can be abused. But I think you have to separate that from the OP’s actions. If everything he said is true (and there’s no basis to think that it’s not), he left a 3* review for what it at best a 3* business. That’s how the review system should work. Leaving a 3* review with no explanation, customers giving 1* reviews for questionable reasons or businesses buying 5* reviews are different issues and I think most of us agree that the system could work better to address those concerns.

He actually compared it to a used car private sale? What I bought is more comparable to a certified second hand car with a warranty from a dealer.

I specifically said "ok, as long as it is clean when I get it, i'll take it" and her response was "definitely, we will fill it and run it for the whole weekend to check for leaks a clean it, it will be as good as new". I don't believe they ran it for the weekend because the leak was there after only 2 hours of running it.

Sliver should share his business name so we can see all bogus reviews since he essentially claimed that every negative post is a lie, but that's his side of the story, i'd like to hear the customers have to say first.

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by Sliver

What did you get out of it, anyway? You pissed off the company that was to maintain your hot tub. Should he have altered the contract? If he did, then, no, of course not. I mean I doubt he's a Rhodes scholar or anything, so whatever, but in his shoes you would have dropped like a stone to my lowest priority because you publicly attacked my company with the goal of encouraging people to shop elsewhere. Yeah, you can do it, but to be shocked Pikachu there are consequences to that confuses me.

Excuse me? They phoned me at home out of the blue and yelled, swore and threatened me, do you not consider a review that lists the good and the bad fair? I wanted my review to be transparent and I made sure to compliment them for their quick fixes and they cleaned pretty good.

How tf did I attack them? Being honest is an attack?
The owner is lucky I didn't press charges and the consumer protection act says they broke a law and the punishment is heavy fines. You're way off.

You're publicly attacking me in this thread.

Did you even read their reviews?

I'm just going to put you on ignore, enjoy licking the boots of business owners.