Sharks @ Flames 7PM MT Sportsnet 960

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Savvy27

I wonder if Czarnik is going to get a look on Monahan's line? He looked good vs Van, but he played well and produced in the preseason last year too.

If Czarnik could fit in on that line, then it would leave the Flames with some really good players to fill out the rest of the forward ranks. Particularly the second and third lines where you could start with:

Tkachuk* - Lindholm - ??????
??????? - Backlund - Frolik
*hopefully

And then fill in the remained with some combination of: Bennett, Mangiapane, Dube and Ryan. Definitely potential for a strong top 9.

I'm also curious to see if the return of Mangiapane will lead to a Mangiapane - Ryan based line. There were effective with Hathaway and one would think that a better third member like Bennett could work as a scoring line.

You really need a two way player to fill Lindholm's spot IMO. Lindholm was also an effective forechecker. Neither for those areas are Czarnik's forte IMO.

IMO if you replace Lindholm it's more likely to be Mangiapane, or maybe even Bennett or Dube, than Czarnik.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

There are some intriguing questions heading into this game. I wonder if Czarnik gets a turn on the top line after a strong performance in Victoria. I am also curious to see if the Dube · Quine · Phillips line that was so effective in that game will remain together tonight.

See the biggest issue with Czarnik IMO has been his lack of a fit on a line, rather than a lack of skill.

He hasn't been able to work with Ryan as his center, because the line would end up being collectively too undersized. We saw this play out the same way for Dube as well. Mangiapane fit because he's stockier than the other two.

He hasn't been able to work with Backlund as his center, because that line has such heavy defensive responsibility.

Most of his success last year came on a line with Bennett and Jankowski, but Janko was our worst center 5v5 by far last year. I was strongly advocating Bennett at 3C and still am, as I think this would get the most out of Czarnik.

Could Czarnik work with Gaudreau and Monahan? They defintely have less responsibility than thr Backlund line, so possibly. You do end up undersized on the wings which might make breakouts difficult, but it's worth experimenting with. Pittsburgh pulled it off a few years ago with Sheary-Crosby-Guentzel.

But the line I'd most like to see for Czarnik's positives to outweigh his negatives would be Mangiapane - Bennett - Czarnik.

Originally Posted by GioforPM

You really need a two way player to fill Lindholm's spot IMO. Lindholm was also an effective forechecker. Neither for those areas are Czarnik's forte IMO.

I think Czarnik is a strong forechecker.

He's not a pure two way player, but neither were Hudler or Ferland.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Gillies having strong outing would be a good problem to have.

[Toonage]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1174353324738404352

Lines at skate:

Gaudreau-Monahan-Dube
Lucic-Ryan-Phillips
Rieder-Froese-Quine
Pospisil-Ruzicka-Rinaldo

Giordano-Andersson
Brodie-Hamonic
MacDonald-Stone
Nielsen-Yelesin

Gilles
Zagidulin

Czarnik scratched even after his big night.

[PugnaciousIntern]

Originally Posted by Toonage

https://twitter.com/user/status/1174353324738404352

Lines at skate:

Gaudreau-Monahan-Dube
Lucic-Ryan-Phillips
Rieder-Froese-Quine
Pospisil-Ruzicka-Rinaldo

Giordano-Andersson
Brodie-Hamonic
MacDonald-Stone
Nielsen-Yelesin

Gilles
Zagidulin

Czarnik scratched even after his big night.

Wow, Dube and Phillips getting every opportunity to succeed

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

See the biggest issue with Czarnik IMO has been his lack of a fit on a line, rather than a lack of skill.

He hasn't been able to work with Ryan as his center, because the line would end up being collectively too undersized. We saw this play out the same way for Dube as well.

He hasn't been able to work with Backlund as his center, because that line has such heavy defensive responsibility.

Most of his success last year came on a line with Bennett and Jankowski, but Janko was our worst center 5v5 by far last year. I was strongly advocating Bennett at 3C and still am, as I think this would get the most out of Czarnik.

Could Czarnik work with Gaudreau and Monahan? They defintely have less responsibility than thr Backlund line, so possibly. You do end up undersized on the wings which might make breakouts difficult, but it's worth experimenting with. Pittsburgh pulled it off a few years ago with Sheary-Crosby-Guentzel.

But the line I'd most like to see for Czarnik's positives to outweigh his negatives would be Mangiapane - Bennett - Czarnik.

I have been pretty outspoken about Czarnik. I can appreciate that he has lots of offensive skill but what he is missing is very important for middle to bottom six wingers. Czarnik is a liability in his own zone, and generally useless in board battles. The only times that Czarnik is effective is when he is in open ice with the puck. In that case he has to wait for someone else to get him the puck if he is going to have a positive impact on the game. That is why guys like Mangiapane and Dube have passed him on the depth chart, they have the same open ice play, but they are also more effective on the fore check and backcheck. Czarnik is a one trick pony, and he is not so good at his trick that it makes up for everything else.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

...I think Czarnik is a strong forechecker.

He's not a pure two way player, but neither were Hudler or Ferland.

Weird. I didn't think Czarnik was at all good on the forecheck last year. And for my money, if his placement on the top line meant a return to effectiveness that mirrored the days when Hudler and Ferland patrolled Monahan's right side, then I am not interested. Maybe its not bad, but it is no where near as good as that line with Lindholm on it.

[Toonage]

Wills suggesting the D pair that sits will be Brodie-Hamonic

so clearly Peters saw them together in 2017...

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I think Czarnik is a strong forechecker.

He's not a pure two way player, but neither were Hudler or Ferland.

I can't agree on the first one. Czarnik's biggest weakness to me is a lack of will to play in dirty areas, including the corner. When he actually does it, he can be effective - I've seen it too. But he doesn't do it very often.

Hudler was an OK forechecker for his size and speed. Ferland was all about the forecheck, at least the phsyical aspect. But more to the present point, the top line had its best year ever when Lindholm was added, because he is a dog on bone forechecker, and he provided defensive responsibility on the backcheck.

I see Dube is on the top line tonight and, to me, he is a lot closer to Lindholm in style than Czarnik is.

[Textcritic]

I assume Gillies will play 60 mins tonight.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

if his placement on the top line meant a return to effectiveness that mirrored the days when Hudler and Ferland patrolled Monahan's right side, then I am not interested. Maybe its not bad, but it is no where near as good as that line with Lindholm on it.

There is no meaningful statistical difference between Gaudreau-Monahan-Ferland and Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm 5v5. The CF% and GF% were almost identical. I've posted this before, but if you want I can post it again.

The main reason people say Lindholm fit better was because he was producing on both sides of special teams and on other lines whereas Ferland's success was more exclusive to 5v5 with those two.

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I can't agree on the first one. Czarnik's biggest weakness to me is a lack of will to play in dirty areas, including the corner. .

Sure, but forechecking is more than just that.

[sureLoss]

Czarnik has an ankle injury. Gillies will play the full game.

Derek Wills @Fan960Wills
Austin Czarnik, who scored two goals on Monday, will miss tonight’s game with an ankle injury sustained blocking a shot vs. #Canucks. Calgary native Matthew Phillips will take his spot in #Flames line-up vs. Sharks.

Pat Steinberg @Fan960Steinberg
Jon Gillies starts in net tonight vs. San Jose. He’ll play the whole game.

[TheIronMaiden]

That is tough for Czarnik, at 26 he doesn't have many more chances to prove that he has got it. Hopefully it's just soreness.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Sure, but forechecking is more than just that.

It's a huge part. Also, he's not that good at the other parts either. He doesn't seem to want the puck as much as others.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It's a huge part. Also, he's not that good at the other parts either. He doesn't seem to want the puck as much as others.

As fast as the game has gotten I would argue that half of the game is still won along the boards and in the corners.

[AC]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

per the Flames projected rosters for tonight (subject to change)

I got a kick out of all the Flames listed "Last Name, First Name", then "Matthew, Phillips".

[sureLoss]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1174363212453687297

[868904]

That Pospisil and Rinaldo line will likely lead to fireworks tonight.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Lines at skate:

Gaudreau-Monahan-Dube
Lucic-Ryan-Phillips
Rieder-Froese-Quine
Pospisil-Ruzicka-Rinaldo

Giordano-Andersson
Brodie-Hamonic
MacDonald-Stone
Nielsen-Yelesin

Gilles
Zagidulin

Originally Posted by PugnaciousIntern

Wow, Dube and Phillips getting every opportunity to succeed

They have earned it with their play through 3 games so far (two prospect games and split squad) . I don't really see a spot for Phillips on the roster at this moment but if Frolik does end up getting moved it could open up.

Dube on the first line is interesting too because if there is chemistry there then Lindholm at center becomes more of a reality.

Originally Posted by Savvy27

I wonder if Czarnik is going to get a look on Monahan's line? He looked good vs Van, but he played well and produced in the preseason last year too.

If Czarnik could fit in on that line, then it would leave the Flames with some really good players to fill out the rest of the forward ranks. Particularly the second and third lines where you could start with:

Tkachuk* - Lindholm - ??????
??????? - Backlund - Frolik
*hopefully

And then fill in the remained with some combination of: Bennett, Mangiapane, Dube and Ryan. Definitely potential for a strong top 9.

I'm also curious to see if the return of Mangiapane will lead to a Mangiapane - Ryan based line. There were effective with Hathaway and one would think that a better third member like Bennett could work as a scoring line.

Depending on what happens with the Tkachuk contract there is opportunity for a very deep and very competitive forward group this year.

Personally I think Peters wants to be able to roll 4 lines more frequently, and has 4 forward pairings in mind.

Gaudreau - Monahan - ?????
Tkachuk - Lindholm - ?????
?????? - Backlund - Frolik
Lucic - Ryan - ?????

Then you have Bennett, Mangiapane, Dube, Czarnik, Jankowski, Reider, Rinaldo, etc filling in the question marks. And Gawdin, Phillips, Ruzicka, and Pospisil as prospects that have looked good so far in camp, and that could potentially push for a call up with a good start in the AHL.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It's a huge part. Also, he's not that good at the other parts either. He doesn't seem to want the puck as much as others.

This does not at all feel like a description of the player I watched last year.

Whether it was with Tkachuk and Backlund or Bennett and Jankowski he seemed to always be near the puck and disrupting the breakout with his positioning and speed.

Terrible at board battles? Yes.
Relatively weak in backchecking? Sure.

But he was frequently playing a suffocating forecheck.