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Old 09-13-2019, 03:07 PM   #41
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The current contract system is so bizarre. You have the Flames nickle and diming an effective young player primed to break out even further and you have them paying what, $4 million this year for a #7-8 defender?
If you're referring to Stone, he's effectively what, $1.8M counted towards the cap? Where are you getting the $4M? Unless you're talking about Brodie, Hanafin, or Hamonic, which would be even more absurd.
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Old 09-13-2019, 03:08 PM   #42
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Maths are hard for some people
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Old 09-13-2019, 03:10 PM   #43
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There is a list of comparables above - $850 is not at all unreasonable for him.
Based on those comparables, I think it is a little high. $800,000 might be my highest offer, were I Treliving.


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Old 09-13-2019, 03:20 PM   #44
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Who needs maths when you're swimming in cap space?
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Old 09-13-2019, 03:22 PM   #45
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Based on those comparables, I think it is a little high. $800,000 might be my highest offer, were I Treliving.


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But if you factor in TOI and opportunity, not to mention the significant jump in production in the second half, $850 starts to look pretty fair.
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Old 09-13-2019, 03:41 PM   #46
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There is a list of comparables above - $850 is not at all unreasonable for him.
Well that’s a different argument, vs good form or a show of good faith because Mangiapane’s camp changed their position. Personally I think there are comparables below $800K too.
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Old 09-13-2019, 03:43 PM   #47
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He really is negotiating himself off of this team.
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Old 09-13-2019, 03:49 PM   #48
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I do not want to eat bread while he is not signed just does not seem the same!
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Old 09-13-2019, 03:50 PM   #49
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Well that’s a different argument, vs good form or a show of good faith because Mangiapane’s camp changed their position. Personally I think there are comparables below $800K too.
It wasn't a different argument for me, as I had factored that into my point - you can't use the good faith argument unless you are within the zone of fair pricing.

Sure, there are comparables below $800k, but there are also comparables over $900k or $1M no doubt. For example, he was more productive per ice-time, than Czarnik. And pretty close to Hathaway, who signed at $1.5M.

Another way to say all this is that $850k is within the zone of reasonability, because the market simply isn't very precise. And that brings us back to the point I was making about good faith.
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Old 09-13-2019, 03:51 PM   #50
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He really is negotiating himself off of this team.
At $850K?
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Old 09-13-2019, 03:54 PM   #51
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Get it done
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Old 09-13-2019, 03:56 PM   #52
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While this is what Michael Stone will take home this year, this is not what the Flames are paying for a #7 defenseman, that is, of course, unless you decide to tack on Stone's buyout to whomever holds down that spot.

The Flames will be paying their #7 defenseman the League minimum.
So you don’t think Stone will be your 7th d?
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Old 09-13-2019, 04:01 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Enoch Root View Post
It wasn't a different argument for me, as I had factored that into my point - you can't use the good faith argument unless you are within the zone of fair pricing.

Sure, there are comparables below $800k, but there are also comparables over $900k or $1M no doubt. For example, he was more productive per ice-time, than Czarnik. And pretty close to Hathaway, who signed at $1.5M.

Another way to say all this is that $850k is within the zone of reasonability, because the market simply isn't very precise. And that brings us back to the point I was making about good faith.
What UFAs signed for is irrelevant...for the 1 millionth time on CP

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Old 09-13-2019, 04:04 PM   #54
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Mangiapane is better than an 850k player. Obviously, the issue is that the Flames have very little cap wiggle room
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Old 09-13-2019, 04:14 PM   #55
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Mangiapane is better than an 850k player. Obviously, the issue is that the Flames have very little cap wiggle room
The problem is that he has yet to prove that he is worth more than that. It has nothing to do with the cap space we have available. By every comparable available we have the room to fit him in.
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Old 09-13-2019, 04:17 PM   #56
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At $850K?
On a one way? Yup.

If it was all about the price this wpuld have been do e already. Clearly theres more to this. Its stupid. Mangipanes representatives need a head shake.
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Old 09-13-2019, 04:46 PM   #57
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So you don’t think Stone will be your 7th d?
Whatever gave you that idea?
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Old 09-13-2019, 05:00 PM   #58
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On a one way? Yup.

If it was all about the price this wpuld have been do e already. Clearly theres more to this. Its stupid. Mangipanes representatives need a head shake.
Mangipane proved that he can hang in the bottom 6, may even have upside as a middle 6er. He deserves to be on a one way contract.
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Old 09-13-2019, 05:01 PM   #59
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Mangiapane is better than an 850k player. Obviously, the issue is that the Flames have very little cap wiggle room
Based on what exactly? 13 points?

If he is better than league min he has to actually prove it on the ice
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Old 09-13-2019, 05:17 PM   #60
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Mangipane proved that he can hang in the bottom 6, may even have upside as a middle 6er. He deserves to be on a one way contract.
Disagree. And seemingly the flames do too. Until they sign him to a one way I will stick to that belief.
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