Yeah - the fan base is underrating both Frolik and Brodie's contributions IMO.
The team is not as good or deep without those two on the roster next season.
However the reason you move Frolik instead of Bennett is because Bennett's likely $2M cheaper next year, has multiple years of control left, and is 8 years younger than Frolik. Not because Bennett is head and shoulders better than Frolik.
Frolik is a better player than most fans seem to give him credit for, and this is doubly so at least for Brodie, but I don't see anything in his game that I can't see Bennett, Mangiapane, or Dube providing with more opportunity to grow and develop.
The real problem, of course, is Stone and Neal (though I think this is less BT's fault than Stone). It's funny to read through the Stone re-signing thread now.
And who do you feel on our current roster could take his spot on the second line and produce more consistently?
Answer: No one.
So if what everyone is saying is true and we get peanuts for him and in fact have to retain salary, what is the point?
Answer: we won’t know til we try.
Certainly seems like Mangiapane and Dube have both earned some looks in the top 9. I’d say between them and Bennett you can definitely replace Frolik’s role.
Do you want Mangiapane to rot on the 4th line his whole career? I think he’s shown more upside than that. You want Dube in the AHL or 4th line? His upside is higher than that. Bennett as one of our few gritty players with skill also arguably needs more ice time.
You gotta make room for your kids at some point. Mangiapane and Dube look ready. Frolik is not miles ahead of them at all.
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I disagree. It was shown for a good part of the year we have a more than capable Brodie replacement in Andersson. Where as i didnt see anyone jump into Froliks spot and show they can do the same or better.
Interesting. You clearly have noticed Andersson’s good play but have you been blind to Mangiapane and Bennett’s? I’d rather give them Frolik’s ice time than have Frolik back. It’s time for both those players and Dube to potentially have bigger roles.
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Frolik is far from a “key cog”. Draft picks aren’t nothing.
The hyperbole doesn’t help your argument.
He may not be part of the "core" but id consider anyone who isnt in the lineup and your team is a little worse a key cog.
Which is my point in this whole thing, trade him and you become a little worse. No one on this roster can do the same or better on that line.
Interesting. You clearly have noticed Andersson’s good play but have you been blind to Mangiapane and Bennett’s? I’d rather give them Frolik’s ice time than have Frolik back. It’s time for both those players and Dube to potentially have bigger roles.
I noticed it because Andersson played Brodies role for an extended period.
Do you not think if Bennett or Mangiapane showed they could take Froliks spot they wouldnt have stayed there?
Peters would have liked nothing more than that to have happened.
Fact is they didnt and thats why Frolik was still there.
I dont have a love in for Frolik but when i see there is no viable replacement that has been shown its dangerous to just assume one of the young guys will eventually come around.
Last edited by Poison; 06-26-2019 at 03:02 PM.
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I noticed it because Andersson played Brodies role for an extended period.
Do you not think if Bennett or Mangiapane showed they could take Froliks spot they wouldnt have stayed there?
Peters would have liked nothing more than that to have happened.
Fact is they didnt and thats why Frolik was still there.
I think Dube could possibly slot in on the 2nd line. He has a real good game and i see him as a middle 6 player by the end of next year.
He may not be part of the "core" but id consider anyone who isnt in the lineup and your team is a little worse a key cog.
Which is my point in this whole thing, trade him and you become a little worse. No one on this roster can do the same or better on that line.
You seem awfully certain about this, and that is where I am more hesitant: on the one hand you have definitively asserted that Andersson can EASILY replace Brodie, while on the other hand you posit that NO forward on the Flames roster can replace Frolik. I think a more accurate appraisal of the situation is this:
· The Flames have a few young defensemen (Valimaki, Hanifin, Andersson, Kyllington) who appear ready to take another step, and they might be able to compensate for the removal of Brodie.
· The Flames have a few young forwards (Dube, Mangiapane, Bennett, Jankowski) who could be ready for a bigger goal and more responsibility, and they might be able to compensate for the absence of Frolik.
Help me to understand what I am missing here.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
You seem awfully certain about this, and that is where I am more hesitant: on the one hand you have definitively asserted that Andersson can EASILY replace Brodie, while on the other hand you posit that NO forward on the Flames roster can replace Frolik. I think a more accurate appraisal of the situation is this:
· The Flames have a few young defensemen (Valimaki, Hanifin, Andersson, Kyllington) who appear ready to take another step, and they might be able to compensate for the removal of Brodie.
· The Flames have a few young forwards (Dube, Mangiapane, Bennett, Jankowski) who could be ready for a bigger goal and more responsibility, and they might be able to compensate for the absence of Frolik.
Help me to understand what I am missing here.
It has already been SHOWN on the ice that Andersson can do Brodies role.
It hasnt been shown anyone can do Froliks. You are hoping and guessing on that.
Thats what youre missing.
Andrew Mangiapane scored at a 15-goal pace this season playing 10:33 a night.
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I noticed it because Andersson played Brodies role for an extended period.
Do you not think if Bennett or Mangiapane showed they could take Froliks spot they wouldnt have stayed there?
Peters would have liked nothing more than that to have happened.
"Extended period of time"? I could be wrong, but I don't think Andersson spent any more than 10 games at various points of the season on the top pairing. I think you are exaggerating the level of his performance.
Quote:
Fact is they didnt and thats why Frolik was still there.
I dont have a love in for Frolik but when i see there is no viable replacement that has been shown its dangerous to just assume one of the young guys will eventually come around.
I also think it is important to consider the expectations and the role that might be foisted upon the young players in question. In your proposal you are advocating for putting a second-year NHL defenseman with average foot speed in a position where he would be playing +21 mins a night, and in highest situations of quality of competition. On the other hand, replacing Frolik means considerably fewer minutes on a checking line that is anchored by one of the best defensive forwards in the NHL, and one of the best-scoring young wingers. It seems to me a better bet to expect a cleaner adjustment from players in a considerably lower-pressure situation.
In short, Frolik's job is not nearly as demanding as Brodies.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
It has already been SHOWN on the ice that Andersson can do Brodies role.
It hasnt been shown anyone can do Froliks. You are hoping and guessing on that.
Thats what youre missing.
It has been shown by him playing a small handful of games with Gio but hardly proven. Bennett has more looks with the second line than Andersson with the top pair so a smaller sample size for Bennett could give the same hope.
Ultimately Frolik played 4th line and was scratched last year. He is a decent player but not a long term fit and his 4.3M cap hit is extremely prohibitive to the team right now. Luckily he has 1 year left and is not Neal bad so he is movable.
I think it would be nice for the Flames to add a better second line winger but if that is not the case they have internal candidates that can step up in the form of Bennett, Mangipane, and Dube. Just like the Flames have the 4 D 22 and younger that can help fill the loss of Brodie
Andrew Mangiapane scored at a 15-goal pace this season playing 10:33 a night.
Great. Pace and projection is all fine and dandy but it isnt reality.
Im not saying one of those guys (minus Bennett) couldnt do it, im saying its much more of an uncertainty than a Brodie replacement.
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It has already been SHOWN on the ice that Andersson can do Brodies role.
It hasnt been shown anyone can do Froliks. You are hoping and guessing on that.
Thats what youre missing.
You keep saying this, but I think you are significantly overselling it. Andersson played a TOTAL of SIX GAMES all season with +21 mins of ice time. That is a far cry from doing it just about every night.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
Great. Pace and projection is all fine and dandy but it isnt reality.
Im not saying one of those guys (minus Bennett) couldnt do it, im saying its much more of an uncertainty than a Brodie replacement.
Isnt' pace exactly what you're using to put Andersson on the right side of Gio?
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Great. Pace and projection is all fine and dandy but it isnt reality.
Im not saying one of those guys (minus Bennett) couldnt do it, im saying its much more of an uncertainty than a Brodie replacement.
This is just completely disingenuous from you, because out of the other side of your mouth you are doing EXACTLY the same thing in your projections of Rasmus Andersson.
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Dealing with Everything from Dead Sea Scrolls to Red C Trolls
Quote:
Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
You keep saying this, but I think you are significantly overselling it. Andersson played a TOTAL of SIX GAMES all season with +21 mins of ice time. That is a far cry from doing it just about every night.
There is still nonetheless something to go off of.
Putting that aside ill ask you again then, if there was a replacement that could do Froliks role why hasnt it been done yet?
Everyone knows the affinity Peters has for Frolik, theres no way you can tell me if someone was even close they wouldnt have been doing it already.
It has already been SHOWN on the ice that Andersson can do Brodies role.
It hasnt been shown anyone can do Froliks. You are hoping and guessing on that.
Thats what youre missing.
I think TJ has more than shown his value to this hockey club, with 570 games played, 44 goals scored, 203 assists and an overall +7 with an average TOI of over 21 minutes a game.
Yep, my argument is based on bias, but it's also based on numbers and history. If you think this team's d wouldn't have a deficiency in speed and endurance without him as part of it, well.. I can be patient with stupidity, but I have an issue with people who are proud of it.
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I think TJ has more than shown his value to this hockey club, with 570 games played, 44 goals scored, 203 assists and an overall +7 with an average TOI of over 21 minutes a game.
Yep, my argument is based on bias, but it's also based on numbers and history. If you think this team's d wouldn't have a deficiency in speed and endurance without him as part of it, well.. I can be patient with stupidity, but I have an issue with people who are proud of it.
Straight stats are a lovely thing. Too bad it doesnt show the timely turnovers Mr Brodie had on a nightly basis. I guess our young D are out of shape snails
Stupidity indeed.
I know we put Rasmus on the ice in the last minute when we were down over Brodie. I feel like he has the potential to positively impact games more than Brodie.
I also believe you are delusional if you don’t think Rasmus is going to have the goat horns at times if he plays big minutes in the top pairing.
I love the guy but he had his struggles against the Avs in the playoffs just like Hanifin.
